Mandating Adult Life Jacket Wear

[Bill Burgette]

A Hot Topic.......only if I'm sweating under my PFD. There are currently enough rules and regulations to suit me. If I choose to NOT wear a PFD that choice will not harm another soul. Leave that decision to me, please. I was hauling my NACRA catamaran back to KY from Lake Erie once and got pulled over by the State Police. No tag on my trailer (Not required in KY unless vehicle being towed has an engine). The officer checked and I was right but he pulled out his ticket book and was preparing to write. I said, "excuse me, what for?" I was being given a ticket for driving with no shoes on. (Illegal in Ohio).

About that time, here came a bunch of motorcycles past us. Not one was wearing a helmet. I said, "can you explain why I need shoes to drive a fully enclosed van and they don't need a helmet to ride a motorcycle? Are you afraid that I'll stump my toe?" He smiled and let me go.

We don't need any more laws that give law enforcement personnel another reason to board our boats and infringe on our personal freedoms. Of course, as always, that's just IMHO.

[MichaelC]

I spend a lot of time in a 17' open row/sail boat on Puget Sound. Once in a while I have my 11 yr old grandson with me. I am a strong believer in having PFDs in my boat, particularly since my butt gets sore when I row more than 3 or 4 miles at a stretch. The PFD is an excellent cushion and solution [though the strap buckles hurt if they get under me]. By law, my grandson must wear his PFD when in the boat [Washington State law], and I think that in general is a good idea. I do not think it is always necessary, but we comply. As far as required PFDs for adults in open boats are concerned, if all of the rancor in this thread were directed to convincing legislators about the issues, we could maybe change the direction of the law.

[MarkSF]

Originally Posted by MichaelC

I spend a lot of time in a 17' open row/sail boat on Puget Sound. Once in a while I have my 11 yr old grandson with me. I am a strong believer in having PFDs in my boat, particularly since my butt gets sore when I row more than 3 or 4 miles at a stretch. The PFD is an excellent cushion and solution [though the strap buckles hurt if they get under me]. By law, my grandson must wear his PFD when in the boat [Washington State law], and I think that in general is a good idea. I do not think it is always necessary, but we comply. As far as required PFDs for adults in open boats are concerned, if all of the rancor in this thread were directed to convincing legislators about the issues, we could maybe change the direction of the law.

We wear life jackets at all times when under way on my boat. The inflatable kind makes it less of a bother. So a mandate would not trouble us much. I can see why it would upset others though.

The inflatables also have a harness which has 2 advantages - can always and quickly strap on, and it doubles as a lifting point if someone goes overboard.

[dave c]

no mandatory pfds in florida. if you cant swim then you should wear one but in summer it is too hot for bulky pfds. in summer many people boat without shirts on or wear bikini tops. pfds are not like clothing and rub and chafe your skin especially when you are sweaty right now in june it is 90 degrees with 80% humidity here in south fla. also when i kayak a pfd would restrict movement when i paddle. our government has no business telling us to wear pfds when they are fighting in court to take away our health care

[zeehag]

or messing with our toilets..LOL

[sabray]

I can't wait for this law to pass. Using always wear a jacket even though my mother tells me to.This will definitely make me a better citizen and society will be better because of this act. I'm putting one on now for society

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by sabray

I can't wait for this law to pass. Using always wear a jacket even though my mother tells me to.This will definitely make me a better citizen and society will be better because of this act. I'm putting one on now for society

mebbe i should wear one to the grocery store today -- after all, is unsafe on land......
.i might fall
could get mugged.
might get shot
omg!

[sarafina]

Not sure how I feel, one way or the other, in this issue, but when my daughter sent me this in an email I immediately thought about this thread...

OBITUARY FOR THE LATE MR. COMMON SENSE
Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.
He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as: Knowing when to come in out of the rain; why the early bird gets the worm; Life isn't always fair; and Maybe it was my fault.
Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children, are in charge). His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6 year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.
Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get Parental consent to administer Calpol, sun lotion or a band-aid to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.
Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband; churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.
Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.
Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.
Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason.
He was outlived by his 3 stepbrothers; I Know My Rights, Someone Else Is To Blame, and I'm A Victim. Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do nothing.
RIP: We shall remember

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by sarafina

Not sure how I feel, one way or the other, in this issue, but when my daughter sent me this in an email I immediately thought about this thread...

OBITUARY FOR THE LATE MR. COMMON SENSE
Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.
He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as: Knowing when to come in out of the rain; why the early bird gets the worm; Life isn't always fair; and Maybe it was my fault.
Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children, are in charge). His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6 year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.
Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get Parental consent to administer Calpol, sun lotion or a band-aid to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.
Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband; churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.
Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.
Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.
Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason.
He was outlived by his 3 stepbrothers; I Know My Rights, Someone Else Is To Blame, and I'm A Victim. Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do nothing.
RIP: We shall remember

Yep.

......

[nautical62]

I work full time in the outdoor recreation field and I think all too often we try to solve such issues by regulation instead of by education. While regulations such as this have their place, they have a few problems.

My biggest concern is that regulations don't make people think about the bigger safety issues. Also, in this case they are largely about incident treatment, not incident avoidance. Certainly, a pfd can prevent someone who's been thrown into the water due to a boating accident who has limited swimming ability from drowning, but it's better still to avoid the accident in the first place. Education in contrast, makes people look at safety from a broader perspective and places more emphasis on never getting into trouble in the first place.

One thing that really brought this home to me was working for one outdoor organization that had an enormous number or rules but many accidents and another that had few rules, but few accidents. I realized that problem was that the leaders and participants in the organization with lots of rules were more focused on the rules than in looking at safety from a broader perspective. Relating this to Sarafina's post, I think over regulation often has some positive effects, but often this comes at the cost of people loosing their common sense and critical thinking skills.

I also think regulations should be minimal just because I think people should be free to make their own choices for the most part and I think requiring that pfds be in the boat has gone far enough. A friend from Europe who traveled to many countries once said to me: "For a country that calls itself the land of the free, you have more restrictions on personal freedoms than any country I've ever been to.".

What I'd really like to see however before forming a strong conclusion is more data. The article gives total deaths, but it gives no real data as to the victim's ages, type of craft, water areas or swimming abilities. It could be that addressing narrower at risk demographic might be more appropriate than regulating all passengers of all boats under a certain length.

[CaptFrankM]

At the risk of asking a stupid question, is there anyone here who legitimately IS in favor of mandatory PFD usage? It seems that we are all in agreement - in principle - that PFD usage is good but mandating the usage is bad.

However, I would like to hear from someone who thinks that mandatory use is a good idea. Of course, there is the argument that it would "save lives" but I have yet to find anyone who would actually defend that position (since the best way to save people from drowning would be to ban all boating and require everyone to move away from any collection of water larger than a drinking glass).

If, on the other hand, we cannot find someone to defend the idea, then who is pressing the Congress or the legislatures of the various states to pass these laws? It would seem that there are significantly more of "us" than there are of "them".

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by CaptFrankM

At the risk of asking a stupid question, is there anyone here who legitimately IS in favor of mandatory PFD usage? It seems that we are all in agreement - in principle - that PFD usage is good but mandating the usage is bad.

However, I would like to hear from someone who thinks that mandatory use is a good idea. Of course, there is the argument that it would "save lives" but I have yet to find anyone who would actually defend that position (since the best way to save people from drowning would be to ban all boating and require everyone to move away from any collection of water larger than a drinking glass).

If, on the other hand, we cannot find someone to defend the idea, then who is pressing the Congress or the legislatures of the various states to pass these laws? It would seem that there are significantly more of "us" than there are of "them".

lobbies and special interest groups.

[FSMike]

Zee -

Don't forget the various bureaucracies that will have to have more manpower, bigger budgets, etc. to enforce the additional rules and regulations. Of course the government wants more laws, it feeds on them!

[FrankZ]

Originally Posted by CaptFrankM

At the risk of asking a stupid question, is there anyone here who legitimately IS in favor of mandatory PFD usage? It seems that we are all in agreement - in principle - that PFD usage is good but mandating the usage is bad.

I don't think it is a stupid question at all.

I am in favor of helmet laws, I am in favor of seat belt laws and, frankly, I would favor a PFD law as well.

[FSMike]

From a philosophical viewpoint I am in favor of mandatory laws regarding helmets, seatbelts, and pfds for anyone below the age of 21. For people 21 and over? I think many of the world's problems can be attributed to overpopulation. Anybody who wishes to help overcome that problem, even in a small way, should be allowed to do so, if not actively encouraged.