courtesy vs national flag

[carstenb]

These courtesy flag threads come along at regular intervals. It seems that not very many cruisers know the courtesy flag rules (and traditions) and a fair number don't think courtesy flags are necessary.

No sure why. After all when we sail into another country's national waters, we are guests in their house. Well-behaved guests are polite and try their best not to upset the host(ess).

[navy davy]

If you are a boat of the country origin ie. you are a citizen/registered in that country, you fly that country flag, if not you fly your flag PLUS a courtesy flag of that country you are visiting, and be sure to fly the quarentine flag until you check in with customs. That's the way I understand it should be.

[navy davy]

I always enjoy seeing the boats that fly the "JOLLY ROGER" especially as the only flag they fly. Krazzy

[Seymore]

Jimmy Cornell has all the countries' courtesy flags in his book World Cruising Handbook, under the front and back covers. This is definitive, since presumably Doina Cornell asked each country what their courtesy flag was when she surveyed them for the book.

[Jammer Six]

How did she ask countries that didn't exist yet?

[El Pinguino]

I think the OP had his answer by #9 and has long since left the building.

However here is a fairly definitive list complete with pics. Civil ensign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So apart from a very small number of mainly 'red ensign ' countries ( about a dozen) most of the countries that have a mercantile ensign have one that differs only in very small detail from the national flag ( about 24). Either the addition or ommision of a small heraldic device which would be barely obvious to most observers.

Anyway now that this issue has been brought to the attention of the world at large I am on the lookout for the headline in the 'Daily Bugle'... 'Yacht skipper in slammer!! Flew wrong courtesy flag!!'

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

However here is a fairly definitive list complete with pics. Civil ensign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The civil ensign is not necessarily the only option for a courtesy flag. Just to confuse matters, in Australia either the national flag or civil ensign is acceptable as a courtesy flag (we also have the unusual situation that the national flag may be flown by private Aussie registered vessels in lieu of the civil ensign).

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Just to confuse matters, in Australia either the national flag or civil ensign is acceptable as a courtesy flag (we also have the unusual situation that the national flag may be flown by private Aussie registered vessels in lieu of the civil ensign).

Just to keep things on the boil.... Australian registered ships ( which includes yachts that are on the register ) are required by law to fly the Red. The skipper of a yacht not so registered can fly the blue if they so choose as it is the right of every Australian to fly the ANF where ever they please.

I flew the red as a courtesy ensign in Oz... I currently fly the blue in NZ as that is what the man in the chandlers sold me 12 years ago.

In the Falklands you can fly the Falklands red, the Falklands blue, or an undefaced British red ensign.... they aren't fussed just so long as you fly one of them... esp if you are from TDC.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Just to keep things on the boil.... Australian registered ships ( which includes yachts that are on the register ) are required by law to fly the Red.

Sorry, that is not correct .

Under the 'Shipping Registration Act 1981' a whole host of Australian registered ships (including yachts ) are able to fly the national flag (blue).
eg All pleasure craft, fishing boats and government ships, as well as commercial ships under 24m.

See:
https://www.amsa.gov.au/vessels/ship...hips/index.asp

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Sorry, that is not correct .

Under the 'Shipping Registration Act 1981' a whole host of Australian registered ships (including yachts ) are able to fly the national flag (blue).
eg All pleasure craft, fishing boats and government ships, as well as commercial ships under 24m.

See:
https://www.amsa.gov.au/vessels/ship...hips/index.asp

I stand corrected...in part....... should read 'all merchant ships above 24 metres that are not pleasure craft, fishing boats, or government owned shall fly the red'....

El Ping,
never wrong, but often mistaken

[Jammer Six]

Looking over some of the links, the only country I go to (Canada) isn't on any of the list, so I assume that means they want their national colors for a courtesy flag.

I've noticed before that Canadians don't have the same customs regarding their national colors that Americans do. For instance, I've seen Canadian colors flying after dark with no light on a government building in Vancouver.

Reading this thread also leads me to the conclusion that what is wanted or what is law varies from nation to nation, so I'm going to look for an official voice on Canadian courtesy flags on an American sloop.

[El Pinguino]

Was, maybe still is, UK maritime law that you should fly your national colours when entering port whatever the hour of day....

I'm not sure why this is relevant...

Nor am I sure which came first... flag debates or after dinner port.. I think that back in the dream time they had the port but needed something to talk about...after the ladies had retired to the drawing room...thus the flag stuff...

Of course one must remember to pass the port in the correct direction... I think the authority on this is Ripping Yarns/Roger of the Raj

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

...
Nor am I sure which came first... flag debates or after dinner port.. I think that back in the dream time they had the port but needed something to talk about...after the ladies had retired to the drawing room...thus the flag stuff...

Of course one must remember to pass the port in the correct direction... I think the authority on this is Ripping Yarns/Roger of the Raj

Last time I peeked over my shoulder when leaving the dining room to retire to the drawing room, it was going around clockwise .

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Last time I peeked over my shoulder when leaving the dining room to retire to the drawing room, it was going around clockwise .

yes, well lassie (and here I am revealing a centuries old secret - I will be stripped of my manliness (I hope the gal doing the stripping is pretty) for telling you this) but as soon as the ladies have retired we do things the other way. We only pass the port to starboard while there are ladies present - when they leave we pass the port to port. That way, any woman trying to disguise herself and mix with the gents will reveal herself (or portiions thereof - or is my imagination running away with me? too much port)

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by carstenb

yes, well lassie (and here I am revealing a centuries old secret - I will be stripped of my manliness (I hope the gal doing the stripping is pretty) for telling you this) but as soon as the ladies have retired we do things the other way. We only pass the port to starboard while there are ladies present - when they leave we pass the port to port. That way, any woman trying to disguise herself and mix with the gents will reveal herself (or portiions thereof - or is my imagination running away with me? too much port)

LOL Carsten, passing it around clockwise (as the men let me glimpse), IS passing it to port. No secrets were being withheld .

SWL x