Certificate of Competency for Leisure Yachts

[SFH]

Hi,

I have tried to Google for the answer with no luck.

What does UK Maritime Law say about the legal reqirements when it comes to Certificates of Competence for leisure yachts of various sizes sailing under the Red Ensign?

Is there a difference between UK registration, Channel Island, Gibraltar etc.?

Thanks

/Steen

[boatman61]

The UK has no requirements for 'Competency Certificates' in Home Waters... they are only a necessity if you wish to visit foreign shores...

[conachair]

Rya site is as good a source as any..
http://www.rya.org.uk/infoadvice/reg...gulations.aspx

Basically under 13.7m you can pretty much do what you want

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[Hoofsmit]

From the RYA website


Therefore if your vessel is used within the legal definition of a pleasure vessel and is either less than 24m (load line) length or less than 80GT, there is no requirement for you to have a certificate of competence to skipper the vessel in UK territorial waters or on the high seas.

[Zanshin]

I am continually amazed by the British licensing rules. I sail my 60,000Lb boat under a British flag and need no license at all to pilot the boat; but I do need a SRC and LRC to legally operate the VHF and SSB radios aboard! Likewise when I flew gliders in the UK my overseas licenses weren't necessary, it was locally regulated and my certification was on written on the back of a beer coaster (for lack of a piece of paper at the time). I firmly believe that the British concept that each skipper is more responsible of his or her welfare and boat than some licensing government body is better than countries which require a slew of licenses to operate a boat (but whose licenses only mean that someone memorized rules and regulations but doesn't necessarily have any practical experience in operating said boat).

As an aside, the only sailing certification that is internationally (nay, globally) recognized is the RYA Yachtmaster program!

[conachair]

Luckily for us and barring a few idiots the accident rate is lower than many countries with compulsory licensing. So we will continue to be left alone to teach ourselves

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[mjtoffshore]

I'm in USA and got on the site looking for information about the ICC chestnut!

I'm still a bit bemused as to if when where and how the ICC is applicable and more particularly when and how it's enforced. Through all the comments no-one has suggested they were incarcerated, boat was impounded or anything save a bit of delay by an overly officious uniformed person.

Although I've chartered in BVI's before I don't have any sailing qualifications. We are only looking to charter for three weeks but I'd hate to get there and find it all a shambles. The two charter companies I've chatted with haven't helped much at all. In fact I'm more concerned AFTER speaking with them as all the information is conflicting and confusing.

So what are the present conditions and can I charter a yacht to sail the Dalmatian coast without a drama? Am I better to get the licence through RYA and avoid any problems? Any advice would be terrific. Thanks.

[goboatingnow]

ASA and US sailing certificates are fine for Croatia. You don't need an ICC.

Dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by conachair

Luckily for us and barring a few idiots the accident rate is lower than many countries with compulsory licensing. So we will continue to be left alone to teach ourselves

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Where are these statistics you mention.

Dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Zanshin

I am continually amazed by the British licensing rules. I sail my 60,000Lb boat under a British flag and need no license at all to pilot the boat; but I do need a SRC and LRC to legally operate the VHF and SSB radios aboard! Likewise when I flew gliders in the UK my overseas licenses weren't necessary, it was locally regulated and my certification was on written on the back of a beer coaster (for lack of a piece of paper at the time). I firmly believe that the British concept that each skipper is more responsible of his or her welfare and boat than some licensing government body is better than countries which require a slew of licenses to operate a boat (but whose licenses only mean that someone memorized rules and regulations but doesn't necessarily have any practical experience in operating said boat).

As an aside, the only sailing certification that is internationally (nay, globally) recognized is the RYA Yachtmaster program!

The UK retains radio licensing in order to remain part of the CEPT grouping.

There is no evidence to indicate one way or another whether licensing makes leisure boats safer.

Dave

[conachair]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Where are these statistics you mention.

Dave

Can't find the link now but there was a quiet government look into it a number of years ago, shame I can't find the link now, whatever the criteria was the UK had a lower accident rate than other countries with compulsory training, the level of self training was already very high.

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[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by conachair

Can't find the link now but there was a quiet government look into it a number of years ago, shame I can't find the link now, whatever the criteria was the UK had a lower accident rate than other countries with compulsory training, the level of self training was already very high.

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Have a read of http://upcommons.upc.edu/e-prints/bi...AN%20UNION.pdf

The UK examined leisure licensing in the context of enhanced drink boating laws being introduced. It concluded that the accident rate was low enough not to justify further licensing

There is no evidence that suggest the UK rate is lower then elsewhere as comparisons are very difficult. Figures show that accident rates, in the EU , run from about 0.5% to about 1.7% . ( call outs to emergency services ) of the countries estimated boating population. Hence the fact is, that licensing in the main does not seem to materially affect fallout statistics. It does t mean the UK is safer for not having licensing ( or more correctly , competency certification)

Partially, I suspect , this is because national schemes are to quite low standards, really being entry level ones. Most are well below the level of the ICC for example.


Dave

[goboatingnow]

Here's some feedback from Norway , The worlds largest concentration of boats per head of population



Norway introduced compulsory certification in 2010 on larger leisure craft ( over 25hp) , the blue line is interesting , I leave it to the reader to draw conclusions as to the trend after 2010

By comparison and I quote
" The report, which uses data from the NWSF’s Water Incident Database (WAID), reveals that, as in previous years, the highest number of fatalities - 217 (52 per cent) - happened in inland waters such as rivers, canals, lakes, lochs, reservoirs and ponds. Nearly a quarter of fatalities - 94 (22 per cent) - happened at the coast or in a harbour, dock, marina or port, while an additional 73 deaths (17 per cent) happened out at sea. Twenty-four fatalities were the result of incidents in baths (including jacuzzis or hot-tubs), six in swimming pools and six in areas that are not usually watercourses, such as flooded areas."

So in a similar year , nearly 180 people died in Dock, coast or at sea in the UK

Dave

[conachair]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Have a read of http://upcommons.upc.edu/e-prints/bi...AN%20UNION.pdf

The UK examined leisure licensing in the context of enhanced drink boating laws being introduced. It concluded that the accident rate was low enough not to justify further licensing

There is no evidence that suggest the UK rate is lower then elsewhere as comparisons are very difficult.

I did come across that one while hunting for the other link, so there's just no way of knowing either way.

"As a
result of this study, no uniformity at European Union in terms
of the requirements for sailing in pleasure boats can be
proven."


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[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by conachair

I did come across that one while hunting for the other link, so there's just no way of knowing either way.

"As a
result of this study, no uniformity at European Union in terms
of the requirements for sailing in pleasure boats can be
proven."


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I've looked at comparisons of fatalities from Norway and the UK, the UKs estimated boating fleet is about 550,000 vessels, whereas Norway has about 880,000, yet UK fatalities are 5 times greater. !!!

Hence one can take no comfort or draw no real conclusions that the UK is any better because it has no certification. It's a dangerous self delusion based on a degree of smugness that is not borne out by facts, and such facts are difficult to compare accurately.

Dave