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Old 26-02-2020, 19:16   #1
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Would the boat building industry be healtier if boats didn't last so long?

Sailors bemoan that they just don't make traditional designs any more. Of course, to some extent, this is because they are still around! Certainly they have gotten bigger.

There are more power boat builders because they don't last so long, or at least they are far more likely to be retired with the motor goes.

So what would the industry look like, hypothetically, if a boat had the same life expectancy as a car, instead of more like a house? Would the designs be different? More day sailing and racing, less cruising? Would new prices be less, with more production and more competition? I suppose the average boat would be smaller but newer.

Most of us are not new boat buyers, but most of us are new car buyers.

[I'm not a new boat guy, not at all. Just musing, trying to stir something up.]
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Old 26-02-2020, 23:22   #2
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Re: Would the boat building industry be healtier if boats didn't last so long?

Some of the newer foam cored boats are almost there now.
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Old 26-02-2020, 23:47   #3
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Re: Would the boat building industry be healtier if boats didn't last so long?

We don't usually tear down most of the houses we buy, just renovate. Why should we artificially desire to scrap the boat earlier than its life expectancy? Other then the marketing efforts of the current boat builders.

I would guess that daysailers are more like cars while boats large enough to cruise/liveaboard are more like houses. And the inbetweens are more like RVs.

Consequently we do not see many daysailers as old as cruising boats.

Here in Northeast at least you rarely see a grand old Victorian house being torn down to be replaced with a modernistic Lloyd type of a structure. Even though the cost of a comprehensive renovation often exceeds the cost of a new construction. Why we dont treat grand old classic boats that way is a mystery to me.
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Old 27-02-2020, 00:48   #4
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Re: Would the boat building industry be healtier if boats didn't last so long?

Doubt it would have any impact.

As much as some bemoan...your average power boat or production sail boat lasts 25-30yr and then is retired more because it's cheaper to buy new than refurbish...particularly when talking about 30ft plus cruising boats.

The reason you hear of 40-50yr old full keel boats is no one is buying them new, so if you want one, the only option is to buy used and refubish.
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Old 27-02-2020, 00:51   #5
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Re: Would the boat building industry be healtier if boats didn't last so long?

Yes, just like no one's builidng grand Victorians anymore and if you want one your only option is to renovate the existing house.
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Old 27-02-2020, 01:31   #6
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Re: Would the boat building industry be healtier if boats didn't last so long?

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Some of the newer foam cored boats are almost there now.
Huh?

Where do you see this in any quality foam cored boats?
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Old 27-02-2020, 03:10   #7
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Re: Would the boat building industry be healtier if boats didn't last so long?

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Some of the newer foam cored boats are almost there now.



The mass production of fiberglass boats began in the 1960s and from the beginning the advantages of coring fiberglass panels were known. Fiberglass panelsí strength comes from the exterior plys and the thickness. Coring is the addition of a different material between two thin layers of fiberglass and the resulting panel is better in almost every way.
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Old 27-02-2020, 05:48   #8
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Re: Would the boat building industry be healtier if boats didn't last so long?

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Sailors bemoan that they just don't make traditional designs any more. Of course, to some extent, this is because they are still around! Certainly they have gotten bigger.

There are more power boat builders because they don't last so long, or at least they are far more likely to be retired with the motor goes.

So what would the industry look like, hypothetically, if a boat had the same life expectancy as a car, instead of more like a house? Would the designs be different? More day sailing and racing, less cruising? Would new prices be less, with more production and more competition? I suppose the average boat would be smaller but newer.

Most of us are not new boat buyers, but most of us are new car buyers.

[I'm not a new boat guy, not at all. Just musing, trying to stir something up.]

Boats do have a short life expectancy . Most of the old stuff out there is junk

Very very few 15 year old boats can pass survey

Equipment service life is seldom greater than 10 years

To keep a boat in survey is expensive

Also consider hull and sailplan design

Modern design is absolutely superior

Why would a boat owner keep an clumsy old design
In survey
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Old 27-02-2020, 05:59   #9
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Re: Would the boat building industry be healtier if boats didn't last so long?

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Boats do have a short life expectancy . Most of the old stuff out there is junk

Very very few 15 year old boats can pass survey

Equipment service life is seldom greater than 10 years [true of houses too]

To keep a boat in survey is expensive [maintaining a house is too]

Also consider hull and sailplan design [that is not age, that is intended use, in many cases]

Modern design is absolutely superior [true of houses too... unless you like Victorian]

Why would a boat owner keep an clumsy old design
In survey [I'm pretty sure my PDQ can match any modern cruising cat--I've raced many--in many regards, modern designs are worse, built for the charter market]
And I though I was going to stir things up....
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Old 27-02-2020, 06:00   #10
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Re: Would the boat building industry be healtier if boats didn't last so long?

Boats do have a short life expectancy . Most of the old stuff out there is junk - Hmm, thanks

Very very few 15 year old boats can pass survey - Ours was 19 years on purchase and survey. no real problems other than a recommendation to replace the change which was a bit rusty from regular use and a better anchor instead of the CQR copy.

Equipment service life is seldom greater than 10 years - ST60s still going strong. Life raft replaced at 22yr point,

To keep a boat in survey is expensive - What do you mean "in survey", that is for commercial vessels this side of the pond, no requirement for recreational vessels.

Also consider hull and sailplan design - hurray I agree, modern canoe shaped hulls with fin keels are were it's at.

Modern design is absolutely superior - please don't wind them up, lots of folk on here like there double ended long keel designs
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Old 27-02-2020, 06:01   #11
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Re: Would the boat building industry be healtier if boats didn't last so long?

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The mass production of fiberglass boats began in the 1960s and from the beginning the advantages of coring fiberglass panels were known. Fiberglass panelsí strength comes from the exterior plys and the thickness. Coring is the addition of a different material between two thin layers of fiberglass and the resulting panel is better in almost every way.
It's false that coring is better in every way...or you wouldn't hear about rotted core, crushed core or delaminated core.

It does have strength to weight advantages but only if properly designed and implemented. A poorly designed or poorly built cored boat can be a nightmare.
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Old 27-02-2020, 06:03   #12
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Re: Would the boat building industry be healtier if boats didn't last so long?

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Boats do have a short life expectancy . Most of the old stuff out there is junk

Very very few 15 year old boats can pass survey

Equipment service life is seldom greater than 10 years

To keep a boat in survey is expensive

Also consider hull and sailplan design

Modern design is absolutely superior

Why would a boat owner keep an clumsy old design
In survey
1) Define "pass survey"
2) Most of those old lead bombs wouldn't pass survey either if you are talking about mechanical fit-out. It's rare that the actual hull fails.

Most 15yr old boats have a decade or more of life left in them. Short of a crash or other major mishap, very rare to see such a young boat going to the scrap heap.
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Old 27-02-2020, 06:11   #13
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Re: Would the boat building industry be healtier if boats didn't last so long?

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1) Define "pass survey"
2) Most of those old lead bombs wouldn't pass survey either. It's rare that the actual hull fails.

Most 15yr old boats have a decade or more of life left in them. Short of a crash or other major mishap, very rare to see such a young boat going to the scrap heap.
Standing rigging lasts ten years
Sails , roller reefing
Hull moisture content , hatch seals ,Rudder bearings , shafting , saildrives , engine heat exchangers , pumps , electrical installation , plumbing valves , protective paint coatings , tanks , hydraulic cylinders , dc motors ....

The list of equipment is long

In survey means that the equipment maintenance schedule matches the manufactures specification

15 year old boats that canít conform to survey are just about worthless... particularly in region with high dockage fees
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Old 27-02-2020, 06:16   #14
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Re: Would the boat building industry be healtier if boats didn't last so long?

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Standing rigging lasts ten years
Sails , roller reefing
Rudder bearings , shafting , saildrives , engine heat exchangers , pumps , electrical installation , plumbing valves , protective paint coatings , tanks , hydraulic cylinders , dc motors ....

The list of equipment is long

In survey means that the equipment maintenance schedule matches the manufactures specification

15 year old boats that canít conform to survey are just about worthless... particularly in region with high dockage fees
Most don't have problems with that other than minor infractions that are cheap and easy to address.

And certainly no difference between the old lead bombs and newer designs for the vast majority of the items you list.
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Old 27-02-2020, 06:19   #15
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Re: Would the boat building industry be healtier if boats didn't last so long?

I regularly see 15 year old boats with 15 year old standing rigging , 15 year old sails , rudders that have never been dropped ....

To bring these boats up to standard is very expensive
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