raritan duck bill wont stop leaking

[Photonsailor]

Ok, so I am a newbe to the two Raritan PH11 toilets in our "new" boat. Have only had Jabscos up til now.
Did a full renewal of all gaskets, Orings, flapper valve etc, following Raritans manual and a good youtube video scrupulously. Pump works as expected, EXCEPT the darned C253 duckbill dripleaking at the connection with the 1222AW flange on the outflow 90 tube.

I have now spent 4 days on this, experimenting with tightening the nuts from very loose to strong also adding adding backing washers to spread the stress. I have tried lubing the duckbill with superlube, no go. Desperately I tried Marine Sealant last evening, no go! Today I meticulously cleaned everything, and exchanged to a new backing "ring-flange" 1222AW on the 90 pipe, still dripping!

I am now at roads end, considering throwing out the darned Raritan and exchanging it for a new but cheaper (but what I consider lower quality Jabsco).

I have read the previous threads on this problem, where Ann (sorry forget her last name) warns against overtightening the two nuts/bots. I have meticulously tried incremental tightening from finger tight all the way to really tight. At no time did the leaking stop. NB! There are no cracks or uneveness on the flanges or the two new duckbills I have tried.

Any advice? Magic, drastic innovative, anything as long as it works! How about some very strong glue? Fabricating a stainless backing plate as backing for the 1222W plastic flange holding the 90 degree pipe and tightening the heck out of it????

Seems to me the duckbill connection is the achilles heel of the Raritan.
Murphy is getting on my nerves!
Lennart

[jls095]

I struggled with this for several weeks before giving up and buying a replacement. Seems the pvc / plastic warps and possibly even cracks over time, making a sealed connection impossible. Be sure there is no sideways pressure on the fitting from how you've routed the hose.

[model 10]

I had the same thing happen this last time. I tried and tried and finally glued the whole mess together with silicone. Worked great

[Photonsailor]

Originally Posted by Ecos

I had the same thing happen this last time. I tried and tried and finally glued the whole mess together with silicone. Worked great

ECOS>
Yeah, it seams that the plastic "washer" is the problem. Although there were no leaks before disassembly. Maybe that was the last drop. I am thinking that it is made all too flimsy and over time gets material fatiqued and flexes. So, therefor I am going to a metal shop to fabricate a thick steel backing "washer" plate to cover the whole plastic thingy. For good measure I will try your medicine and also glue the connecting surfaces, maybe sikaflex 591 (west marine stuff is not so prevalent in sweden...).

What silicone did you specifically use??

[NevilleCat]

Was looking at a few new Jabsco joker valves the other day.
I thought all were faulty in that none closed completely in the packet. Especially the small ones for the electric heads but also the 1 1/2" ones for the manual heads.
Seems like a manufacturing issue.
The TMC ones looked ok.

[Sailshabby]

Have you tried calling Raritan?

[Dave Lochner]

Try posting the Plumbing forum. Peggie Hall sometimes happens by and she is the one to answer most if not all head problems.

[Mike Banks]

The duck bills I have used are always at the highest point of the siphon breaker and certainly have to be located well above heeled waterline.

[hlev00]

I don’t have a Raritan but with the Jabsco it is important to disconnect the hose before screwing the joker housing on or it won’t sit right and leaks.

[Dave Lochner]

Originally Posted by Mike Banks

The duck bills I have used are always at the highest point of the siphon breaker and certainly have to be located well above heeled waterline.

I think there is a terminology difference. The part the OP is describing is better known as a joker valve and it goes at the outlet from the pump on the head and prevents back flow.

[Poeme]

I've had this Raritan PH 11 head for many years and also had trouble with a leaking joker valve connection to the pump housing...UNTIL...bolting the joker valve collar to the pump housing FIRST, THEN fitting the pump housing/flapper-valve assembly to the head. This way there is no side-twisting pressures while trying to bolt the collar on squarely, and not necessary to remove fitting from the hose. Somehow this gets a clean mating of surfaces and for me, no joker-valve leaks since.

[Photonsailor]

Originally Posted by Poeme

I've had this Raritan PH 11 head for many years and also had trouble with a leaking joker valve connection to the pump housing...UNTIL...bolting the joker valve collar to the pump housing FIRST, THEN fitting the pump housing/flapper-valve assembly to the head. This way there is no side-twisting pressures while trying to bolt the collar on squarely, and not necessary to remove fitting from the hose. Somehow this gets a clean mating of surfaces and for me, no joker-valve leaks since.

Thanks all for more input on this, and Poeme - you add a new tip that I will try. The sideways and torsional twisting stresses imposed by a modern smellfree sanitation hose may be too much for the original design of the plastic flange, even when chossing optimal straight or 90-degree connecting pipe. There will always be some unavoidable bendings stresses because of commonly cramped places for the hose to go! Add to this that the plastic probably ages and fatigues and loses strength over time (new flange not incorporated in the pump renovation set).


I have now asked a stainless steel shop to fabricate a "backing-plate" to help the oval plastic "flange/megawasher" keep from bending even slightly, when tightening, carefully(!) the 2 bolts and nuts. Maybe I will also go with the Sikaflex goo treatment too if this does not solve the problem.

Will let you know if this worked or not, hopefully during the week!
Now for a well earned glass of whiskey! Cheers!

[Poeme]

Full disclosure, my boat came with a metal 45 degree joker valve fixture and metal collar, don't know who's idea that was but I'm glad for it. Yet, the connection leaked, every time...until doing that connection first. Yes, hose is so stiff, and cramped back there...has to be aligned best as possible before assembly. Somehow the pump housing can stand a little less initial alignment, and the 4 bolts seal the flapper valve in there quite well. Hope this helps...

[peghall]

I'd just left the plumbing forum when I saw the header for this thread and decided to investigate.

This is a common problem in a lot of toilets, not just the PHII...and it's "owner inflicted," caused by over tightening the bolts connecting the discharge fitting to the pump.

The flange on the joker valve is also the gasket that seals that connection.. over-tightening the bolts causes the rubber to "pucker" around each one, which creates a leak...and the harder you tighten the bolts, the more it leaks...crank 'em down hard enough and you can even crack the pump housing...which it sounds like more than one of you has managed to do.

The solution: tighten the bolts barely snug...pump a little water through the toilet to check for a leak...if there is one, tighten no more than a quarter turn...check for any leaking again. Quit when you don't see any.

Depending on how long you've been making the leak worse instead of better, it's possible that you've permanently puckered the flange on the joker valve...in which case that connection won't stop leaking till you replace it.

Amd btw....Never crank one bolt at a time all the way down...always tighten bolts "evenly"--each one a little at a time. That doesn't only apply here...it's anything that has multiple screws or bolts around it.

--Peggie

[Poeme]

100% agree on all points.