Painting the yacht

[SuW]

We painted our 32 foot boat topsides with 2-part LPU, 4 years ago. The results are wonderful but the work it took to get there was grueling.

We read the Don Casey book, This Old Boat, which is an excellent primer for painting (no pun intended). He is a great communicator - we found everything we know from this plus the paint manufacturer's various articles about painting and their products. It didn't seem so hard.

Hah! We met someone in the boatyard who needed help painting her boat and we did the top coats for her, as a team of 4 people. One to roll, one to tip, one act as gopher for the roller (bring small quantities of thinner to the roller tray when the tipper said it was getting sticky or scoops of more paint), and one to move the painting stands, water the floor for dust, mix paint and clean tipping brushes.

Mixed paint was kept in a cooler so that it didn't set up. A big sheet of glass to test thinning. Temperature was 29C (80+) and humid. July. Undercover but not enclosed, with loose gravel underneath.

The thing as important as thinning is getting the primer coats as fair as you want the top coat to be - the shine will emphasize imperfections. We discovered a 3M product called Guide Coat which is used in the car restoration business. It's basically a huge powder puff with fine carbon powder, but it works well. You sand off the black stuff in the grooves(...I have most of the carton left over if anyone wants it!)

Results on the first boat were OK. Very shiny. Dark blue needed 3 coats of topcoat. We did the third coat the second summer.

Conclusions.
The owner hadn't thinned the primer coats at all, which meant that there wasn't enough time on this earth to sand out all the brush marks. Interprotect is hard when fully cured like that.

You will use far more thinner than you imagine. We nearly ran out and had to recycle some from the brush cleaning can. 30% sounds right, but you don't necessarily add it all at the beginning. A lot of it flashes off before it even gets to the hull. if the tipper says the brush is dragging or squeaking, add a 30 ml cup of thinner to the roller tray and mix in. Mix most of the paint you think you'll need to about the right thickness (use the plane glass test) and keep it in an icebox or fridge until you need it. You icebox will get covered in paint, fwiw.

We used badger brushes for tipping on that boat. Also a small brush for the roller person to cut into the masked toerail. On my second project, a 21 foot rowing shell, I used foam brushes to tip with much better results, except the foam brush will start to go floppy and sag from the solvent after 10 minutes and you must change for a new one.

On the third project, our own boat, we did everything according to what we had learned, used a painting tent with tarps on the floor and got a virtually perfect result. Washing down the boat after sanding each time was a joy as all the water had to be mopped up with rags.

It is worth getting experience painting someone else's boat!

Later that year my husband had to have back surgery, probably brought on by the sheer amount of hard physical work involved in this process...so it wasn't cheap to do it ourselves! The hard won result still pleases us when we go down the dock...

[SuW]

A few pictures of the results.

[hellosailor]

SuW-
"You will use far more thinner than you imagine."
Not necessarily. You've got to bear in mind that these 2-part products are really intended for a professional market, with spray equipment and often forced-air supplies not just filter masks, IN A PAINTING CHAMBER. Which means an EPA-approved chamber with full temperature and humidity controls. And that's not unique to paint.
I worked in a business with some high-end "color copier" type equipment, including the traditional dry color xerography (when it was new) and "wet" color xerography, where the pigments were carried in fluid across five foot wide rollers to produce very large paper or cloth signage.
We couldn't get the color right, consistent, dead on to the design specs, from one day to the next. Finally the manufacturer's rep said the entire work area had to be environmentally controlled--except the cleaning crew kept shutting down the AC and humidifier at night so every morning was a new travail.
When we boxed all the equipment into a glass-walled sealed room and locked the environmental controls (even the paper/cloth storage area) on, the problem went 95% away. The jobs ran consistently.
Using any high spend spray coatings, especially the 2-part LPUs, out in the open without controlled humidity and temperature, is going to be a mad dance to adjust the thinner all day every day. From 8AM to high noon to 4PM...every batch will be a race to keep it right.
For a DIY job....Well, yeah unless you can pick a weekend with a perfect dead weather front stalled out on you, there's a reason you can never match pros in a booth. Regardless of the product, even if some are less critical than others.

[coopec43]

SuW and HelloSailor

Thanks for your input. Both your posts emphasized the need for controlled conditions and the exactness of the procedure.

I realise I made a couple of errors, the main one is that after putting on the primer I should have sanded it right back as it had an "orange Peel" surface. The paint manufacturer said I should have used a slow working "Part B Hardener. I think that would have solved the problem.

But when I paint it next time (5 years?) I'll fix two slight "creases" in the hull, sand the paint-work back and then "roll and tip" it with a one part paint. (What I've read in the last few days makes me wonder if there is much to be gained by using "two part")

Clive

[hellosailor]

Clive-
You never know, paints may change in five years. I've never tried comparing paints beyond "Oh, that's nice and shiny" or similar subjective comments, but from all that I've read, there are some damned good one-part paints BUT the pros say the 2-part toxic sprayed stuff is the hardest, glossiest, more durable stuff.
I can't recall if it was Interthane but someone equally respected once told me flat out that it doesn't matter what paint you use "If you paint, you will need to repaint every ten years, period." As opposed to gel-coating or just not looking over the toerail. Or, getting a flocking gun and spraying the entire hull in Chinese Whorehouse Red from time to time. (Hey, it makes it easier to tell the launch driver which boat to go to, right?)

I have less tolerance every year for waxing. And you can't just hire some kids to wax anything anymore, either they'll try to smoke the wax, or they won't show up, or the child labor laws get in the way. But when I see some neglected boat needing a $25,000 yard paint job all because some dumb SOB never bothered waxing a hull for twenty years...it really makes me wish that keel hauling has fallen out of favor.

There are some good yards who stay open doing glass work, repairs, and PAINTING all year long, and sometimes if you can say "I'll store the boat with you, paint it whenever you get around to it, anytime between November and April will do" you can get a good price on the combined deal, because they've got to store boats anyhow, and keeping the guys busy year round, without tight schedules, is a real bonus for them.

[SuW]

We used Interlux Perfection for the topsides which gave a good result. However I painted the deck and cockpit with Interlux Brightside, which is a very forgiving paint and also gives good results. (Kiwigrip on the non-skid). I also painted the interior fibreglass (hull liner) and interior plywood with it and the weird smell inside the boat has gone! We thought it was the head or bilges, but I think that old fibreglass gives off a foul odour as some components break down over time. The boat is 42 years old.

You can overcoat 2-part products with Brightside. There are a lot of other paint products, but I like it so much I've used it on my garage doors and other doors in my house with better results than any domestic paint.

[SuW]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Clive-
You never know, paints may change in five years. I've never tried comparing paints beyond "Oh, that's nice and shiny" or similar subjective comments, but from all that I've read, there are some damned good one-part paints BUT the pros say the 2-part toxic sprayed stuff is the hardest, glossiest, more durable stuff.
I can't recall if it was Interthane but someone equally respected once told me flat out that it doesn't matter what paint you use "If you paint, you will need to repaint every ten years, period." As opposed to gel-coating or just not looking over the toerail. Or, getting a flocking gun and spraying the entire hull in Chinese Whorehouse Red from time to time. (Hey, it makes it easier to tell the launch driver which boat to go to, right?)

Actually it is funny you should say that, there was a thread about using those vinyl wraps to finish the topsides of a boat. With the added virtue that you can have images in the finish. Someone said they last 5 years or so. I have no idea how much it costs, but anything that's good enough for the America's cup boats is good enough for us, right?

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by SuW

Actually it is funny you should say that, there was a thread about using those vinyl wraps to finish the topsides of a boat. With the added virtue that you can have images in the finish. Someone said they last 5 years or so. I have no idea how much it costs, but anything that's good enough for the America's cup boats is good enough for us, right?

Well I have a chap coming to put vinyl stripes/scroll down the sides of the yacht as well as the name on the transom and bow (P & S). I am told they will last seven years. (I have chosen the same style as Galatea)

They also sell vinyl for the Boot Stripe which I think is the way to go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzlSJwF4qgE

Clive

[SuW]

Originally Posted by coopec43

Well I have a chap coming to put vinyl stripes/scroll down the sides of the yacht as well as the name on the transom and bow (P & S). I am told they will last seven years. (I have chosen the same style as Galatea)

They also sell vinyl for the Boot Stripe which I think is the way to go.

Clive

Aha thanks, Clive...glad we had this little chat, I was hoping to raise the waterline and redo the bootstripe!
Sue.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by SuW

Aha thanks, Clive...glad we had this little chat, I was hoping to raise the waterline and redo the bootstripe!
Sue.

I've also painted the bilges, bulkheads and internals of cabinets/cupboards with an epoxy marketed for rust protection. The large hardware chain salesman said it was perfect for fiberglass - "you can get the same paint from our marine section for double the price"

There are two main brands sold in Australia "Killrust"and "Rustguard". I assume you have the same kind of paint in the US of A? (Maybe Rustoleum Appliance white gloss?)


Killrust Epoxy Gloss Enamel Paint - Wattyl

Killrust Epoxy Gloss Enamel. An advanced, anti-corrosive epoxy formula; Provides durability and maximum metal protection in an attractive gloss finish; Apply ...

www.wattyl.com.au/en/find-the-right.../WattylKillrustEpoxyGlossEnamel.html


White Knight Rust Guard® Epoxy Enamel - White Knight Paints


https://www.whiteknightpaints.com.au/...rust-guard/.../white-knight-rust-guard-epoxy-...
White Knight Rust Guard® Epoxy Enamel may be used on all metal surfaces. Ideal for use on metal fences, roofs, doors, gutters, downpipes, windows, railings ...


Clive

[mikeyboards]

it is a 2-man job...and dont apply a lot with the roller it will cause drips or runs my mistake .the 2part poly needs to be applied thinly it has great coverage characteristics
and when doing so it tips off faster..a few months ago i did my hull so i know from experience..i prefer a 2part poly because it has a hardener and i think it will cure better and get real hard.i am not sure how the single part poly works.

[coopec43]

Originally Posted by mikeyboards

it is a 2-man job...and dont apply a lot with the roller it will cause drips or runs my mistake .the 2part poly needs to be applied thinly it has great coverage characteristics
and when doing so it tips off faster..a few months ago i did my hull so i know from experience..i prefer a 2part poly because it has a hardener and i think it will cure better and get real hard.i am not sure how the single part poly works.

Did you use a slow (or ultra slow acting) "Part B hardener" or just the normal one?

I think I'll be using a one part polyurethane next time I paint.

"One-part polyurethane: by far the most popular choice, and the one we recommend most highly. We consider it ideal for do-it-yourselfers who can achieve near-professional results with a brush or roller. And even though it’s not quite as hard or durable as two-part polyurethanes, many professional painters find it close enough in appearance that they prefer it to all other enamels. Look at Pettit Easypoxy, Interlux Brightside or West Marine SeaGloss Pro.
https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvis...pside-Painting


Clive

[SuW]

Originally Posted by mikeyboards

it is a 2-man job...and dont apply a lot with the roller it will cause drips or runs my mistake .the 2part poly needs to be applied thinly it has great coverage characteristics
and when doing so it tips off faster..a few months ago i did my hull so i know from experience..i prefer a 2part poly because it has a hardener and i think it will cure better and get real hard.i am not sure how the single part poly works.

I've used Brightside single part on many boat projects, inside and out and it is a good paint, more forgiving and less toxic than 2-part. It dries to a smooth, hard, shiny finish. Unused paint keeps for years if you have it closed properly; for small amounts I often decant it into preserving jars.

[Allied39]

The original post is happy with his job, which is fine.
My post is more for others trying to get an idea.
I only use awlgrip...I believe it's the best. Others say "it's as good as awlgrip".....then better to use awlgrip in my opinion.

I would not even consider a single part paint, not for a second. Unless of course a couple of year paint job is fine and removing it (which sucks as they tend to go chalky) is your idea of fun.

The 20 foot rule does not work for me.....I get closer than 20 feet to my boat.

First up, a good polyurethane paint job should last 10 plus years.Doing a bad job and looking at it for years would suck. Not that I would know, just seems like it would suck.

Spraying is REALLY easy. Just have to keep two points in mind.

1; follow the manufacturers instructions exactly. NOT THE RETAILER! Most guys behind a counter couldn't find their "thingo" with a map. Awlgrip has a comprehensive guide to exactly how to prep and apply.
First Paint job I did, I followed Awlgrips instructions exactly....bought the exact gun they recommended, called them and discussed my plans. Paint job came up near perfect. I have done 6 since then, same result. I did however learn point two.

2; LIGHT. if you are not a professional, you HAVE to have good light. A professional has done enough jobs to have the feel and not depend on light.
With good light you can see what you are doing, example; when the manufacturer says apply two light coats then finish with a wet coat.....you can see the difference.....literally see it as it goes on! (as would someone who "knows what they're doing" )

So, if you have the ability to apply by spray, which most places will not allow, but if you do,take advantage of the situation and put in a little extra time and money and do a proper, excellent job. You can have a beautiful paint job on your beautiful boat that will be a pleasure to look at every time you get within 20 feet of your boat for at least a decade, likely much more.

If you are stuck with no spray....I can't offer much info except to wish you luck. I have seen roll and tip done perfectly....I mean perfect!.....but have no Idea how he did it.

Just my opinion, offend as it may.

[boatman61]

Best roll and tip job I have ever seen was a two man operation on a vintage wood 12metre converted AC boat in Agua Dulce, Spain.
Two guys were flown in from Holland by the Dutch owners and they did one side a day.. Perfection.
Dunno what paint they were using but it was a joy to watch them at work.
This was back in '97