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Old 11-12-2018, 16:24   #46
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Re: Painting the yacht

boatman

Rightly or wrongly I believe rolling and tipping with two part polyurethane paint is for the professionals who have the right equipment - tent to control temperature and humidity and "spacesuit" protection for safety.


I'd love to know what paint they used to paint the 12meter.



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Old 11-12-2018, 16:47   #47
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Re: Painting the yacht

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Spraying is REALLY easy. Just have to keep two points in mind.

1; follow the manufacturers instructions exactly. NOT THE RETAILER! Most guys behind a counter couldn't find their "thingo" with a map. Awlgrip has a comprehensive guide to exactly how to prep and apply.
First Paint job I did, I followed Awlgrips instructions exactly....bought the exact gun they recommended, called them and discussed my plans. Paint job came up near perfect. I have done 6 since then, same result. I did however learn point two.

2; LIGHT. if you are not a professional, you HAVE to have good light. A professional has done enough jobs to have the feel and not depend on light.
With good light you can see what you are doing, example; when the manufacturer says apply two light coats then finish with a wet coat.....you can see the difference.....literally see it as it goes on! (as would someone who "knows what they're doing" )

I don't disagree with anything you say.

As far as spraying is concerned I presume you can't use a spray-gun in a marina and it would be illegal to spray anywhere without proper equipment anyway. That rules the method out for most people?


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Old 11-12-2018, 17:06   #48
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pirate Re: Painting the yacht

Quote:
Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
boatman

Rightly or wrongly I believe rolling and tipping with two part polyurethane paint is for the professionals who have the right equipment - tent to control temperature and humidity and "spacesuit" protection for safety.


I'd love to know what paint they used to paint the 12meter.



Clive
Actually they had the marinhieros lift her onto the hard near the waters edge shielded by the big hanger size boatshed, rig up the scaffolding.. then they prepped her and set too..
She was out and back in in a week.. mind she looked good to my eye before they started..
Cant help you with the paint.. may have been a traditional oil based paint methinks.
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Old 11-12-2018, 17:47   #49
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Re: Painting the yacht

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Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
I don't disagree with anything you say.

As far as spraying is concerned I presume you can't use a spray-gun in a marina and it would be illegal to spray anywhere without proper equipment anyway. That rules the method out for most people?


Clive
I have sprayed in a marina, but that was because they knew me and understand that I have consideration for other and their vessels. Not a common thing.
Some yards allow spraying. A great many yards spray, just have to find one who allows it.
Dropping a grand on a gun, mask and moisture filters is a no brainer when you consider that you can paint what you want, when you want and in the end still have the tools and knowledge to use in the future.

As for illegal, it depends where you live I suppose. some folks live in over regulated counties full of fine spewing bean counters trying to fill the government coffers with taxes, fines and license fee's etc, and I pity them. But even then you can get around a lot of that. I used to live in a place like that, it just entails a lot of prep and constant looking over your shoulder to get things done without getting caught.
Glad those days are over.
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Old 11-12-2018, 18:35   #50
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Re: Painting the yacht

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Originally Posted by Allied39 View Post
The original post is happy with his job, which is fine.
My post is more for others trying to get an idea.
I only use awlgrip...I believe it's the best. Others say "it's as good as awlgrip".....then better to use awlgrip in my opinion.

I would not even consider a single part paint, not for a second. Unless of course a couple of year paint job is fine and removing it (which sucks as they tend to go chalky) is your idea of fun.
Awlgrip is hard to get in Australia but you can find it. The main dealer is in Brisbane I think. I've done 8 boats with it over the years but mostly in North America. I roll and tip but with another person and thin about 20 to 25% for 2 coats and a 3rd with a bit more. In cooler weather you can use a few drops of promoter as you don't want to get caught by any dew. You have to make sure the weather is good and work VERY fast. Only talk to each other about the job and nothing else, this is serious stuff. Your boat would take maybe 15 to 20 mins each side, 30 max. Any problems can be sanded out the next day until the last coat. By then you'll have it figured out...... hopefully. I've seen many people painting in boatyards that just work too slow and don't get the paint to the correct consistency. You also have to watch the sun if there is any and have a plan of attack. If done right it can look like a spray job and the feeling of achievement is amazing. Good luck next time.
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Old 17-12-2018, 07:03   #51
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Re: Painting the yacht

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Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
My Jim talked to me about the "car painting syndrome", where for show cars, one wants "perfect" paint jobs. For boats, it is not so much so, none of those "15 coats of hand rubbed lacquer". The UV's gonna get to it, and it will at some point no longer be perfect. Paint is fragile, compared to gelcoat.

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Bravo! Well said!
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Old 17-12-2018, 07:14   #52
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Re: Painting the yacht

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I have never used two-part polyurethanes paints as "roll and tip" but I have used the single part versions. The results were as close to perfect as I could have hoped for. Just a little practice and it's perfect.

Surface prep should take 10 times as long (at least) as the actual painting if you really want a good surface. The more successful you are at getting a smooth and shiny finish with the paint, the worse it will look if your surface prep was half-baked.

If your mate got orange peel and runs, he does not know what he is doing with a spray gun and is applying much too thick a coat.

I hope you and your "mate" know and understand the VERY serious breathing protections NEEDED when spray polyurethane paint. Very few amateurs have the kind of pressurized air supply respirators that are required for these chemicals. Hardware store respirators are NOT good enough to protect your health.
I second all of this. I painted my boat with a single part version thinking that timing is a problem with 2 parts. Prep is everything. Thinning approriately is the second thing. Many folks walking by could not believe I did not spray. I did have my wife tipping behind me—-I think that doing a first rate job requires two people because the stuff dries fast and you need the wet edge to keep it glossy. You can over brush the stuff if you try to “fix” it. It is a skill that can be developed . It is going to take more than one coat so you can learn on the first coat, lightly sand and then do the final. I will never spray anything again.
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Old 17-12-2018, 07:17   #53
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Re: Painting the yacht

Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
My Jim talked to me about the "car painting syndrome", where for show cars, one wants "perfect" paint jobs. For boats, it is not so much so, none of those "15 coats of hand rubbed lacquer". The UV's gonna get to it, and it will at some point no longer be perfect. Paint is fragile, compared to gelcoat.

Well, yes. Gelcoat is a much better, tougher finish than paint....any paint. However , 30 odd years after production even gelcoat is about done. I do not think a thread about how to re gelcoat your old boat will have many comments by folks that have done it.
I just figure if ...I mean when, you are refinishing an old boat it's worth the extra effort and some extra money to do a good job....spray if the location allows because it's really not that hard.....as explained in my previous post.
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Old 17-12-2018, 08:45   #54
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Re: Painting the yacht

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2 part poly gets unworkable really fast.

You want a cloudy day so the surface you are applying it to is cool, you want no wind, and you need to hustle.

You use the brush to even it out and knock down bubbles while the paint is still completely wet. I guess this is why folks recommend doing roll + tip with two people, you don't want to be working that paint even a minute after it was put down.

If its too thin (30% sounds like way too much) the finish won't be glossy and the brush strokes wont bleed together into oblivion, in my experience. You don't need more thinner, you just need to move faster.

Don't bother trying to go back and fix anything, you are a simple machine making the same motions over and over, working your way around the boat. If something goes wrong your attempts to fix it are just going to make it worse and ruin your rhythm.
Totally agree.
I’ve done a lot of rolling & tipping with Interlux Perfection (very good results) and Epiphanes (deeper luster but complete PITA).
Also used single part Interlux - much easier but much softer and degraded quickly.
Keep in mind you can overcoat 2 part with 1 part, but not the other way.
Also (depending on thickness) you can do a lot to fix a paint job with wet-sanding & polishing to knock down orange peel and other mistakes
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Old 17-12-2018, 08:51   #55
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Re: Painting the yacht

Two points:
1) “Roll-n-Tip” is a technique that was developed for and works great with classic oil based enamel. The one part Poly paints, which have almost as slow a drying time as enamel work fine. Two part Poly paint (EG: AwlGrip) will not work well, as you’ll need to slow the drying time down and add so much thinner that the surface will not be as shinny as a one part. You need to apply the correct technique to the paint your using.
2) If you are going cruising and wish to maintain your boat in out of the way places, you’ll want to put the next coat on (or repair dings and scrapes) from a dock or dinghy. That means a brush or roller.

Therefore, I’d strongly advise using a one part Poly (EG: EZPoxy) and forget about two part entirely. While two part paints look great initially, cruising boats get banged up and need to be maintained. The last think you want to be doing is respraying your boat in Tahiti!

Your boat looks great in the picture. Go sailing.
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Old 17-12-2018, 09:19   #56
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Re: Painting the yacht

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I’ve helped paint several small boats and had terrible results using roll and tip. Turns out the trick is don’t tip it! Just roll.
Buy the book on painting from Port Townsend Watercraft and follow the instructions. They say to use Interlux Perfection and thin it 15%. It really works.
The book is only a few bucks to down load. E-Books
I second just rolling, at least for light colors. I successfully rolled my previous 35 footer. It was all in thinning, technique, and weather. Always painted first thing in the morning right after the dew evaporated. Sanded with palm sander quickly and then around the boat with a friend keeping the paint tray loaded just right.

Thinning is critical as is a blend of brushing and spraying thinner toned to the weather.

Total amount of interthane plus (before perfection) was a quart for one coat from waterline to toe rail.

5 coats over 5 days. If it gets dew it goes dull.

If cost 4 is perfect then STOP!!!

Details on my website including downloads of the daily weather and thinning. Just data, not well organized at this point.
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Old 17-12-2018, 10:25   #57
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Re: Painting the yacht

Clive,
I'm aware different sailors (or sailors to be), like any of us, have different tastes and levels of perfectionism. Yes, a professional facility with awlegrip coating of an entire hull is extremely expensive (~$250/f). Spray painting is cheaper but it wouldn't hold well for years even if perfectly prepared and performed. Guess a hand painting with a roller would cost you in materials maybe $20/f... - the result will stay a disaster no matter how hard you try if your'e not a pro or have years of experience.

While painting is mostly a matter of cosmetics, steering is way more serious - functionally with significant safety aspects. - better learn well the subject and consult pros with any small action before doing anything. BTW - YouTube and the web in general, offers tons of good resources on both boat's proper painting and other mechanical repairs...

Looks like a nice boat - you want to make sure she is getting the best possible work possible, otherwise the cost in the very near future can hit you really hard.

Best of luck


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Thank you gamayun that is most encouraging!
I really think I have more important things to do at this stage like finishing off the steering


Clive
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Old 17-12-2018, 10:33   #58
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Re: Painting the yacht

I used a 2 part paint called Hempel, did it all by myself (3 coats) and only rolled,-the secret is to have the right roller. I used a roller sold by the West System guys for Epoxy,--its very thin fine foam covering and does not fall apart. Lots of thinners as everyone says and same for the primer, I did the primer too thick originally and spent days sanding it down, finishing with 800 grit wet sanding.


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B07...ew?usp=sharing

I also took the time to remove my out island rubber rub rail and replace it with an aluminium extrusion for about 1/5th the price it would have cost me to import the rubber rub rail to NZ

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B07...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 17-12-2018, 10:35   #59
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Re: Painting the yacht

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Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
Just for the record the yacht is f/g.

I suppose a metal hulls would have all sorts of undulations caused by welding stresses. But I've looked at production boats at boat shows etc and you can see imperfections where, for example, bulkheads are bonded to the hull. Even though the painters would be professionals working in controlled conditions I bet their job is not perfect as there are cost restraints they must work to.

I try to do the best job I can but I am a realist: I want to see the yacht in the water...... Maybe I am the only one who notices the imperfections?

Clive
Almost assuredly you are the only one who notices! I got more compliments on the rolled job on the 35 footer. They always assumed I had sprayed it myself!

I could find the pattern of strokes I used with the roller but no one else could.

The advantage is you don't cry so much when you scratch it docking! Compared to having the perfect paint job for the first trip after the job ***grin***
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Old 17-12-2018, 10:48   #60
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Re: Painting the yacht

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Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
I’ve helped paint several small boats and had terrible results using roll and tip. Turns out the trick is don’t tip it! Just roll.
Buy the book on painting from Port Townsend Watercraft and follow the instructions. They say to use Interlux Perfection and thin it 15%. It really works.
The book is only a few bucks to down load. E-Books
Just purchased. Looks good, I used alot of interthane plus and am looking for tricks with the new paint. Always good to have additional insights.
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