Mono vs multihull

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Wylieh

Hello folks, I am new to the sailing world so please bear with me. I'm looking to buy a new (to me) boat, and can't decide what avenue to go cat vs mono, the one big question that ways in my mind is in open sea if a cat flips it turtles but a mono may self right. In you're experience is this common, are the cats only for crushing in tropics ( calmer seas) anyway I'm not trying to offend anyone just had that question in the back of my mind and am hoping some real world feedback could steer me in right direction. Thank you!

There is a wealth of information on the topic you ask on this forum and the dozens of other forums out there. A simple search in each search engine would result in days of information for you. If you search on CF, you'll find many threads debating the topic. Mostly by people packing their posts.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Wylieh

Hello folks, I am new to the sailing world so please bear with me. I'm looking to buy a new (to me) boat, and can't decide what avenue to go cat vs mono, the one big question that ways in my mind is in open sea if a cat flips it turtles but a mono may self right. In you're experience is this common, are the cats only for crushing in tropics ( calmer seas) anyway I'm not trying to offend anyone just had that question in the back of my mind and am hoping some real world feedback could steer me in right direction. Thank you!

I figure if anyone had discovered that the experiance of doing both was common that they likely would have taken up a different activity long ago - so unlikely to be here on CF .

No boat (design or model) is perfect for every purpose - and none of them are completely idiot (or Jonah!) proof.

Which is "best" really comes down to use, personal taste and budget (boats are basically priced in square footage of living space, not on simple length - hence 50 foot of cat is more expensive than 50 foot of mono, because it's a bigger boat!)......leaving aside the extremes of both (in design and build) then pretty much any will be good enough for use that most will want to do - so that the risk of sudden sinking or flipping not (IMO) a sufficient issue to decide between the two.

Biggest risk on either is the skipper being a moron.......and only "you" can answer that one .

[FSMike]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

--- you have the issue of operating these:

OK Nick, but how about some photos of all the switches, knobs, etc. on a Sundeer 64?

[Roy M]

Insurance can be a good arbiter. Which is the harder and more expensive to insure? They are the same. Equal risk. Also equally unlikely to be lost. Otherwise it would be impossible to insure them. Therefore, choose what you prefer to enjoy. I prefer speed, liveliness, and stability over cargo carrying capacity, traditional appearances and ease of finding a slip.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by FSMike

OK Nick, but how about some photos of all the switches, knobs, etc. on a Sundeer 64?

What makes you think a Sundeer is not a monohull? It's a ketch so two big sails plus jib, but all is the same as any other 40 foot monohull ketch. The secret weapons are all Jedi mind controlled

[susswein]

Speaking of cats not letting you know when they're overcanvassed:

Does anyone know of a force gauge/alarm that you could attach to the side stays of a cat that might give some advance warning of a potential flip?

Or is this a completely stupid owner from a non cat owner?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by susswein

Speaking of cats not letting you know when they're overcanvassed:

Does anyone know of a force gauge/alarm that you could attach to the side stays of a cat that might give some advance warning of a potential flip?

Or is this a completely stupid owner from a non cat owner?

Ah the flip-over protection device I think it was invented in a previous thread . There is also the skippy ball at the masthead system of preventing the 180 degree flip

[deckofficer]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

What makes you think a Sundeer is not a monohull? It's a ketch so two big sails plus jib, but all is the same as any other 40 foot monohull ketch. The secret weapons are all Jedi mind controlled

Jedi mind control AND another 24' tacked on to that 40' monohull ketch.

[Ryan H]

Guys, can I just break this argument down and save us all the shouting?

Mono Guy:
Cats are unsafe cause they flip!

Cat Guy:
Well MY boat floats upside down!

Mono Guy
Well my boat doesn't HAVE to!

Cat Guy:
Mono's suck cause they bob around and don't have any room!

mono guy:
Waves wack the bottom of the cats cabin and keeps you up at night

Cat Guy:
Monos bob around all the time and keep you up at night!

Mono Guy:
Cats can't go to windward!

Cat Guy:
Gentlemen don't go to windward!!

Mono Guy:
Gentlemen sail Herreshoffs!!!

Cat Guy:
Well mines shorter and still bigger!

Mono Guy:
I'm not talking to you anymore cause you clearly won't survive in that Cat long enough to learn that I'm right

Cat Guy: I'm not talking to you anymore cause you live in a man cave and I need to get back to my mediteranean super models lounging on deck

[Wannabe-007]

I told myself I wouldn't nibble on this hook... but my fingers got the better of me.

If comparing two relatively equivalent specs - ie. mid/low range production cruising boats...
My comments come in various ranges of debatability... but I regularly sail both, so hopefully i'm relatively unbiased.


Cats:
More room
Significantly more expensive to own, maintain, berth, etc
Large stable platform when sailing, and at anchor
More airy, social, indoor/outdoor flow
Can strike a whale/container, and stay afloat
Has a slim chance of being upside down & turning into a huge life raft if you try really hard to wreck it.
Faster. Im not sure about VMG when destination is straight upwind.
Has 2 engines, so engine redundancy

Monos
Generally look nicer (can't beat the lines on a nice mono)
More sailorey (IMHO) ...as opposed to loungey. Hard to explain.
Will do scarey things like lean over, round up, and get knocked down.
Will generally pop back up again when knocked down
Has slim chance of sinking if you try really hard to wreck it


Personally... I race 30-40' monos, and cruise on similar sized monos and cats.
I feel more alive and sailor-like on the monos... usually racing, its exhilerating.
I feel more relaxed on a cat... my wife is a lot happier, and I can pour an orange juice from the cabin, while chatting to my friends in the cockpit... in 40 knots.

When I sail from the Caribbean to New Zealand, comfort and happy-wifeness will win hands down, no question.

The OP has one concern with cats - they flip. That particular concern has probably been alleviated.
Happy wife = happy life.
Yachtworld shows 98 cats for sale with list prices between $120k - $160k.
If you dont mind the aesthetics, the Lagoon 380 is a lot of boat for the price... but we have no idea if you want to race it, live on it or just take it out twice a once or twice a year (a sad but very common reality).

When do you pay the money? Let us know which one you buy

[colemj]

Originally Posted by susswein

Speaking of cats not letting you know when they're overcanvassed:

Does anyone know of a force gauge/alarm that you could attach to the side stays of a cat that might give some advance warning of a potential flip?

Or is this a completely stupid owner from a non cat owner?

What you are looking for is called a "wife".

Seriously though, it is not a stupid question. Although they do not heel way over like a mono, cats certainly let you know when they are overpowered. Symptoms are heavy weather helm and, yes, heel. It is surprising how immediately you notice a 10* heel on a catamaran when you are used to no heeling. Also, the boat starts hitting speeds that are "out of sync" with the corresponding sea states and the boat begins to complain.

Or your wife does.

In general, with a bit of experience on a particular catamaran, you will begin to "feel" when it is over-canvassed.

This is different than getting hit from a high wind speed gust out of the blue. Most of us sail with the main sheet unclutched and easily releasable from a turn or two on a winch for this reason.

Mark

[Wylieh]

Hello everyone, and thank you all for you're very valuable information. My intention with this boat is to live on it and cruse the world. Currently I have a river jetboat that my wife and 3 kids take on long weekend up rivers to the middle of nowhere and it's 16' long with soft top, we sleep on the floor and have the time of our lives. My next ambition is to sail the world starting with the caribian, by the time I'm 40 (3years) I would like to have my boat purchased and ready for winter liveaboards 2-3 months. Progressively after that I would like to spend all my time sailing both single handed, and when I can coax wife on with her, or kids,family, friends hell even strangers if they seem normal. So at this point I have aprox 150k cash to buy a boat, obviously the less I spend on it the sooner I can cruse,so if you have any advise I do appreciate and respect it. O by the way I build custom homes from ground up so if I have to start with a great hull and build everything inside that sound appealing also. Cheers!

[Wannabe-007]

Originally Posted by Wylieh

O by the way I build custom homes from ground up so if I have to start with a great hull and build everything inside that sound appealing also. Cheers!

I don't know very much, but from what I've read, that would probably result in a very very long and ultimately unsatisfying retirement on the hardstand. (some will disagree, but i think, statistically, you become a statistic).

Originally Posted by Wylieh

My next ambition is to sail the world starting with the caribian, by the time I'm 40 (3years) I would like to have my boat purchased and ready for winter liveaboards 2-3 months. Progressively after that I would like to spend all my time sailing both single handed, and when I can coax wife on with her, or kids,family, friends hell even strangers if they seem normal.

There's a few things in there that sound a bit oxomoronic...
imho, having to 'coax' your wife is a bit like 'coaxing' the tide out with a fork... You've got to get her buy-in or it just wont work.
Spend your first money going to the caribbean and chartering - a mono and a catamaran if you're still uncertain.

Also, i meant to include a link in my last post... when I said "Yachtworld shows 98 cats for sale with list prices between $120k - $160k."... and I must have changed something 'cause its 134 now

[Dulcesuenos]

With any boat you reef when ever you thi k about it. I have been on a cruising cat in a 40kt gust with full sail and guess what it rounded up. I took a "charter"out the other dayand showed him a cat in full cruising form with lar keels can sail 45 degrees to windward np. To flip a cat or rolla mono you are either somewhere you shouldnt be or incredibly careless. Besides how many monos could handle the kind of beating induced by a rollover and not loose a hatch and sink. Or a mast etc. The boats that could handle this I would think are at the higher end of the spectrum. Severals lifes are lost when monos roll. Not sure the stats on cats. But there was one that survived afloat when many monos sank on the Queens birthday storm. In fact I believe every mono rolled and was dismasted and the only two cats lay ahull and had min imal damage/ injuries. I could be wrong ......

[smj]

Originally Posted by ArtM

A gemini is not a perfect liveaboard. This one includes a full enclosure for the rear deck. I think with some creativity and a full enclosure, a Gemini can be suitable for liveaboard, though clearly not at the same level as a Lagoon or Leopard.

It has the benefits of a narrow beam for standard slips, and daggerboards for superior upwind performance. I think I have heard of a Gemini, or perhaps it was a PDQ flipping or nearly flipping when sailing hard with the wrong board down. It's the only story I've heard so far of a production cat flipping under non-hurricane conditions.

There have been quite a few Geminis that have flipped under non hurricane conditions. And only one PDQ I know of was custom built with daggerboards, the rest are mini keels.