Mono vs multihull

[Dulcesuenos]

Originally Posted by smj

There have been quite a few Geminis that have flipped under non hurricane conditions. And only one PDQ I know of was custom built with daggerboards, the rest are mini keels.

While i am no fan of gems, i have only heard of two events out of over 11-1200 of these boats out there. One supposedly was a waterspout and another that tripped on its boards but never really read anything confirming it. Can u please provide details?

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

With any boat you reef when ever you thi k about it. I have been on a cruising cat in a 40kt gust with full sail and guess what it rounded up. I took a "charter"out the other dayand showed him a cat in full cruising form with lar keels can sail 45 degrees to windward np. To flip a cat or rolla mono you are either somewhere you shouldnt be or incredibly careless. Besides how many monos could handle the kind of beating induced by a rollover and not loose a hatch and sink. Or a mast etc. The boats that could handle this I would think are at the higher end of the spectrum. Severals lifes are lost when monos roll. Not sure the stats on cats. But there was one that survived afloat when many monos sank on the Queens birthday storm. In fact I believe every mono rolled and was dismasted and the only two cats lay ahull and had min imal damage/ injuries. I could be wrong ......

Yea, you would be wrong. The cat Ramtha was abandoned by all hands during that storm. She lost steering, several large portholes stove in, bulkheads were sprung, and the crew felt the boat was breaking up. They got rescued, here's some pics and a link to an account of the rescue. There's also a great book about the storm which I can't remember the title of right now, lots about Ramtha there. The only boats to survive the storm unscathed with crew intact were monos.



YouTube


Queens Birthday Storm 1994 - HMNZS MONOWAI

[smj]

Originally Posted by minaret

Yea, you would be wrong. The cat Ramtha was abandoned by all hands during that storm. She lost steering, several large portholes stove in, bulkheads were sprung, and the crew felt the boat was breaking up. They got rescued, here's some pics and a link to an account of the rescue. There's also a great book about the storm which I can't remember the title of right now, lots about Ramtha there. The only boats to survive the storm unscathed with crew intact were monos.

YouTube

Queens Birthday Storm 1994 - HMNZS MONOWAI

If I recall correctly,Ramtha was found floating a month or so later. Also if I recall correctly, a famous offshore mono, a Westsail 32 sunk and everyone onboard was lost?

[smj]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

While i am no fan of gems, i have only heard of two events out of over 11-1200 of these boats out there. One supposedly was a waterspout and another that tripped on its boards but never really read anything confirming it. Can u please provide details?

I think last I counted I could think of at least 9 that have flipped. One was motorsailing in 25kts of wind in Mobile Bay.

[Dulcesuenos]

Originally Posted by minaret

Yea, you would be wrong. The cat Ramtha was abandoned by all hands during that storm. She lost steering, several large portholes stove in, bulkheads were sprung, and the crew felt the boat was breaking up. They got rescued, here's some pics and a link to an account of the rescue. There's also a great book about the storm which I can't remember the title of right now, lots about Ramtha there. The only boats to survive the storm unscathed with crew intact were monos.

YouTube

Queens Birthday Storm 1994 - HMNZS MONOWAI

Ramtha was found rightside up two weeks later also a 12 m catalac weathered the storm with full crew and minimal damage. This is well documented ......sigh

[Dulcesuenos]

Originally Posted by smj

I think last I counted I could think of at least 9 that have flipped. One was motorsailing in 25kts of wind in Mobile Bay.

Trying to google this and no luck other than maybe the one motor sailing was the waterspout event? Would like to see the cause of these if it indeed happened.

[bobconnie]

Come on guy's !! Mono or Cat, or Tri. It's the sailor sailing the boat that makes the difference between being over powerd by there sails! everybody who has sailed in heavy weather has had to reduce sails. How much trouble they have is in driect relation to WHEN they reefed ! Not IF they reefed !! cus mostly the torn sails and busted riggin are from not reefing soon enough!! If ya don't reef the weathers gonna do it for ya !! That's just the way it is !! With todays weather reporting , theres almost no reason to get caught in a major storm ! But to me , ive always thought reefing before it's really needed was a equipment choice !! Im a low buck cruiser, I don't like spending my boat money replaceing things That should not have broken ! so I reef before most and maybe get to where Im going a little later !! heck I can't even spell secdual LOL

[smj]

Originally Posted by smj

If I recall correctly,Ramtha was found floating a month or so later. Also if I recall correctly, a famous offshore mono, a Westsail 32 sunk and everyone onboard was lost?

My mistake. The Westsail did sink but the crew was rescued. It was a 40' mono from New Zealand that sank and the crew was lost. Ramtha was found floating a couple of weeks later in good shape and sailed back to Australia.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

Trying to google this and no luck other than maybe the one motor sailing was the waterspout event? Would like to see the cause of these if it indeed happened.

Another one flipped of Naples in benign conditions. I will try to dig into the fuzzy archives of my brain to remember the rest. It surprised me how many had flipped, but then there were quite a few built.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by minaret

Yea, you would be wrong. The cat Ramtha was abandoned by all hands during that storm. She lost steering, several large portholes stove in, bulkheads were sprung, and the crew felt the boat was breaking up. They got rescued, here's some pics and a link to an account of the rescue. There's also a great book about the storm which I can't remember the title of right now, lots about Ramtha there. The only boats to survive the storm unscathed with crew intact were monos.



YouTube


Queens Birthday Storm 1994 - HMNZS MONOWAI

You might be wrong too, they lost steering and abandoned Ramtha, but I've never heard about portholes stove in, or the boat breaking up.

She looked fine when I was aboard her a few years ago in Hervey bay.

There were at least two other cats in the vicinity that didn't issue maydays - one is called Fallado, can't recall the other ATM.

An account of the storm: Multihull Dynamics, Inc. - News Article

[impi]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

I really know little about cats but I have sailed them and there are some I think would be OK for offshore. I always thought the Gemini was more of a coastal cruiser type but maybe that was earlier on, I've been away from it for awhile.

Interestingly enough I have now come across a few people who have circumnavigated in Gemini's. One couple I know of and have become good friends with is Seth and Jamie who circumnavigated on their boat called 'Slapdash'. Although they have sold Slapdash, it is worth while taking a look at their blog ... just google it!

We meet so many different couples out here ... on multihulls and on monohulls ... it's all a matter of being out at sea and discovering new destinations. Both will get you there!

To me, at the end of the day both are as safe as each other ... a lot depends on the skipper and different weather conditions call for different techniques. Get a boat that 'fits your pocket' and then have some change to spend enjoying it

[minaret]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

You might be wrong too, they lost steering and abandoned Ramtha, but I've never heard about portholes stove in, or the boat breaking up.

She looked fine when I was aboard her a few years ago in Hervey bay.

There were at least two other cats in the vicinity that didn't issue maydays - one is called Fallado, can't recall the other ATM.

An account of the storm: Multihull Dynamics, Inc. - News Article

You may be right (about me being wrong), I think I may be confusing the cat Ramtha with the cat Heart Light, which broke up and was abandoned during the storm. Too many hippie names. Here's the book I was thinking of, it's a great read.


Rescue in the Pacific: A True Story of Disaster and Survival in a Force 12 Storm: Tony Farrington: 9780070486195: Amazon.com: Books


The 1994 Queen's birthday storm | Pangolin

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

Ramtha was found rightside up two weeks later also a 12 m catalac weathered the storm with full crew and minimal damage. This is well documented ......sigh

Yes, Sigh...

The only Catalac involved did not survive unscathed. It was abandoned, the crew taken aboard a Fijian cargo vessel, and the Catalac was then DELIBERATELY rammed and sunk. This was at the insistence of the owners wife who believed that the storm was some sort of intergalactic struggle between the forces of good and evil. She wrote a book about the incident which was, errr, interesting reading! The boat had been doing pretty well in the hands of folks who were seriously lacking in experience and good judgement.

The boat that was lost with all hands was a Lidgard 40 named Quartermaster. Not long before she was apparently overwhelmed they were active on the SSB trying to help others who were having severe problems. One, a Cheoy Lee Offshore 40 named Mary T was taking on water through the cockpit hatches faster than they could get rid of it. QM was offering helpful suggestions which aided the crew in saving that boat.

The only boat that could be said to have come through unscathed was Heart of Gold, a Schumaker 50 which left with the mob but piled on sail and outran the worst of the storm and safely arrived in Tonga. Jim and Sue Corenman thus proved that in some cases a really fast yacht can escape bad weather.

All in all the multi hull boats did pretty well, as did a much larger number of monos. It was a storm of exceptional strength and anyone who survived it can pride themselves on their seamanship... and their good luck.

Cheers,

Jim

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Yes, Sigh...

The only Catalac involved did not survive unscathed. It was abandoned, the crew taken aboard a Fijian cargo vessel, and the Catalac was then DELIBERATELY rammed and sunk. This was at the insistence of the owners wife who believed that the storm was some sort of intergalactic struggle between the forces of good and evil. She wrote a book about the incident which was, errr, interesting reading! The boat had been doing pretty well in the hands of folks who were seriously lacking in experience and good judgement.

The boat that was lost with all hands was a Lidgard 40 named Quartermaster. Not long before she was apparently overwhelmed they were active on the SSB trying to help others who were having severe problems. One, a Cheoy Lee Offshore 40 named Mary T was taking on water through the cockpit hatches faster than they could get rid of it. QM was offering helpful suggestions which aided the crew in saving that boat.

The only boat that could be said to have come through unscathed was Heart of Gold, a Schumaker 50 which left with the mob but piled on sail and outran the worst of the storm and safely arrived in Tonga. Jim and Sue Corenman thus proved that in some cases a really fast yacht can escape bad weather.

All in all the multi hull boats did pretty well, as did a much larger number of monos. It was a storm of exceptional strength and anyone who survived it can pride themselves on their seamanship... and their good luck.

Cheers,

Jim

+1. The Catalac was Heart Light.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by minaret

You may be right (about me being wrong), I think I may be confusing the cat Ramtha with the cat Heart Light, which broke up and was abandoned during the storm. Too many hippie names. Here's the book I was thinking of, it's a great read.

He is definitely right about you being wrong. Ramtha (a simpson cat) has virtually no damage when recovered and like 44C I have been on the boat since. Heartlight was floating quite happilly un till the interesting owners asked for it to be set to its doom.