How Often to Hand-Clean the Bottom?

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by boatman61

The best way to get ablative paint to work is sail the bludi boat.. if you want a floating cottage use a hard antifoul.. then you can clean it by hand..

Funny, that is essentially what I posted a bit up the thread before reading this. : )


Unfortunately, learning our boat and fixing stuff kept us in one place during a very hot season, in brackish water, and that is where the problem began.


Thanks for your posts,


G2L

[Sandero]

I have given up on bottom paints... tried hard, soft, ablative and hi content copper. Differences in performance where I keep the boat and sail are marginal.

I now use hard paint, one coat... and have a professional diver clean the bottom as frequently as I need it. If we are heading off for a week or two I get the bottom cleaned before we leave. Where we are in LIS the bottom is cleaned about every 6 weeks or so.

My recommendation for weekenders and part time users is to go minimal and inexpensive on bottom paint and spend the money on divers.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Whatever type is used, I am definitely going to roll on the paint. People I've spoken with seem to have much better results with rolled rather than sprayed bottom paint.

Any professional hull cleaner will tell you that a rolled-on bottom is the worst, as far as cleaning goes. As the paint ages and begins to lose effectiveness, the orange peel texture (with its myriad tiny hills and valleys, trapping slime) means that the diver has to really dig in to get the growth out of the low spots. This means removing paint and shortening the bottom job's lifespan.

If you are going to roll a bottom on, at least have the good sense to "tip" it.

Originally Posted by gamayun

Anyway, I think the next few years of results are going to be interesting and possibly much different than the expectations....

This may be true in California, but less because of the departure of Irgarol as an ingredient and more because of the required reformulation of anti fouling products resulting in reduced copper leach rates. This means many high-copper anti fouling paints that perform well now will do so less well in the very near future.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Sandero

My recommendation for weekenders and part time users is to go minimal and inexpensive on bottom paint and spend the money on divers.

This may be sound advice in your neck of the woods, but I can tell you from over 21 years hull cleaning experience, that cheaping-out on anti fouling paint will only bite you in the ass out here in California. Any paint you use is going to require in-water hull cleaning but an inferior paint will not only foul worse (and faster) than a high quality product, but will lose effectiveness faster as well. This means increased haulouts for new paint and I guarantee the cost of that will outweigh using a good paint and any amount of hull cleaning.

[Sandero]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

This may be sound advice in your neck of the woods, but I can tell you from over 21 years hull cleaning experience, that cheaping-out on anti fouling paint will only bite you in the ass out here in California. Any paint you use is going to require in-water hull cleaning but an inferior paint will not only foul worse (and faster) than a high quality product, but will lose effectiveness faster as well. This means increased haulouts for new paint and I guarantee the cost of that will outweigh using a good paint and any amount of hull cleaning.

I speak for my experience and practice in LIS waters.

We have to store in winter because of weather and lack of facilities such as working fuel docks and water.

We store in water or on the hard... Haul out once a year.

These days most yards do not let DIYers sand and paint their bottoms. They claim new environmental laws as the justification.
No one in their right mind stores in water from October thru April (6 mos.) without the boat moving without painting or at least hauling and having the bottom power washed and barnacles removed.

The yards seems to NOT sand or do very little... let the boat dry mask and roll on paint. For the haul out wash and roll on a coat of paint, change the zinc, clean the prop and you are charged close to $1,000 for a mid 30 foot boat for standard grade of paint. They want to do 2 coats and of course charge for paint.

When I have been at a DIY yard and spent a lot of time sanding and prepping... I got the same results... just wasted several days of my life when I could have been doing something else like earn money for example.

I now have decided to use divers than buy less expensive paint. I don't race and don't need a smooth as glass sanded bottom. Ablative paints are useless the way I use the boat and the way 99% of sailboats are used...(rarely).

[anguilla1980]

Originally Posted by boatman61

The best way to get ablative paint to work is sail the bludi boat.. if you want a floating cottage use a hard antifoul.. then you can clean it by hand..

Winner lol

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Sandero

SNIP

I now use hard paint, one coat...

SNIP

Always wondered about the advice that you put on two coats and a third along the water line. I understand extra growth and extra friction is the reason for a extra paint at the waterline.

But why is it two coats instead of one coat or three coats. Anyone have experience with more than two coats.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Always wondered about the advice that you put on two coats and a third along the water line. I understand extra growth and extra friction is the reason for a extra paint at the waterline.

But why is it two coats instead of one coat or three coats. Anyone have experience with more than two coats.

The biocide load in the anti fouling paint on your boat's bottom (and therefore its longevity) is determined by the amount of paint you apply. One coat of paint will provide X amount of biocide that will perform for Y length of time. Two coats will provide 2X of biocide and 2Y length of time. If you do not haul annually (which we don't, on the West Coast), two coats means hauling for paint less frequently.

That said, there is a mil-thickness of paint that is ideal. More than that and you are wasting paint. Anti fouling paint works by allowing water to penetrate the paint surface and leaching out biocide. Once you apply more than the ideal thickness of paint, water cannot penetrate to release biocide and the paint underneath that is useless.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Always wondered about the advice that you put on two coats and a third along the water line. I understand extra growth and extra friction is the reason for a extra paint at the waterline.

But why is it two coats instead of one coat or three coats. Anyone have experience with more than two coats.

OK , Let's get "real world"....Frankly, it's often the case that after you finish coating, whether one or two, you have extra so you just roll it on the first fouled places like the waterline.


There seems to be some focus in this discussion about getting slime off... again, this is the least of a cruiser's worries.... I imagine most would take slime anyday, buckets of barnacles etc are the big deal.

[senormechanico]

[QUOTE=fstbttms;20' slime) means that the diver has to really dig in to get the growth out of the low spots. This means removing paint and shortening the bottom job's lifespan.

If you are going to roll a bottom on, at least have the good sense to "tip" it.

This may be true in California, but less because of the departure of Irgarol as an ingredient and more because of the required reformulation of anti fouling products resulting in reduced copper leach rates. This means many high-copper anti fouling paints that perform well now will do so less well in the very near future.[/QUOTE]



Not wishing to sound like a newb, having sailed and maintained my boats ever since the late '60's, but WHAT is "tipping"?

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

Not wishing to sound like a newb, having sailed and maintained my boats ever since the late '60's, but WHAT is "tipping"?

http://www.boatus.com/boattech/articles/bottom-line.asp

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdq...-tip_lifestyle

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

The answer is "what water are you in?". In the water you specify I would clean it monthly. In 5-6 weeks in some places the barnacles will be up to 1/2" diameter. In the DR, our few months old Trinidad bottom paint was so loaded it was amazing. I probably scraped two 5 gal buckets worth off that boat. it was such a big job we delayed leaving and finished the next day. All the bottom feeders were coming up as I was scraping looking for food. The boat had sat at anchor for 6 weeks.
That was probably a worst case scenario.
IME, bottom paint doesn't prevent growth in those areas, it just kills it after it's attached.
Yes a scraper will not clean off the small residual ring from a scraped off barnacle, (unless you are intent on getting that and some paint off with it) but it's more a visual thing than a problem.... especially compared with the mountains you took off. Unless you are willing to clean nearly weekly in the tropics, you're gonna have some small stuff on there.

Thanks,

Basically what you described has been my experience.

Always good to hear from you,

G2L

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by four winds

The hard paint on mine is now 15 months old. A well known brand with no anti slime additive. Sometimes I sail regularly and other times I stay in the same spot for weeks or months. Sometimes in salt water and others brackish water.

Initially I had some slime that would I would wipe off about one a month. Or I would sail an overnighter and the bottom would be clean again.

After the first few months, maybe five or six, barnacles would appear within the same cleaning interval. Honestly, it wasn't a set schedule. I would simply judge by looking at the waterline to determine when cleaning was indicated. In warmer salt water maybe every three weeks. In cooler or brackish water maybe six to eight weeks.

I free dive in swim trunks to clean so it's easy to put it off in the winter months, though thankfully the growth was no worse even at the greater time interval. Also in cold water I would do half one day and finish the next. Really zapped my energy.

The barnacles were/are almost entirely within a foot of the waterline. They are small and tightly spaced, and dead. But they won't wipe off easily with a rag or scotch pad. A wide sheetrock knife held very shallow wipes them off like they aren't there, including 95% of the calcium rings. Another swipe and 99% of the rings are gone. It's not much effort and looking closely I can'see any effect on the paint itself. Never see paint in the water, only barny bits.

Once around and then another lap with a rag or scotch pad cleans the rest of the slime off. The boat sails well with a clean bottom and it's a good workout for an aging sailor.

So how often for me, 3-8 weeks depending on conditions.

Fifteen months in and the paint appears to have the same texture from the roller application that it began with.

Thanks,

Seems like a good way to go, for us too. Have let it slip lately, however, and will no doubt pay the price. Don't hold your breath for us : )

Regards,

G2L

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by Gone2long

About a year ago, I bought an older epoxy over wood boat and immediately hauled it due to the junk on the bottom. That cost me $1,500 in crane/storage costs and another 1.5k in labor and materials. Not an experience I would like to repeat yearly.

The boat is in the tropics, and when I bought it, was moored in a brackish estuary, where growth was abundant. The guy who hauled it suggested that I clean the slime off it every month or so, to keep barnacles etc., from growing, so I did so for about a year.

However, as a result, even though I used mostly just a glove, lots of ablative paint came off, especially around the water line, and now I get barnacles there and in other places on the hull where the paint is thin.

My questions then are as follows:

"Did I get a wrong steer from the hauler (for perhaps obvious reasons) , and should I have cleaned less frequently?"

"Also, should I clean less frequently now, allowing barnacles to grow, then simply pop them off with a small scraper, while continuing my gloved cleaning, in order to avoid another, costly haul?"

"Lastly, from reading other threads, it seems that many folks clean much less often, so what is the risk, if any, to the hull while letting some barnacles grow to the point of potentially slowing down the boat, and how often does one really need to clean the bottom?"


I know, I know, "it depends ..." : )

Let's hear what you guys and gals think on any or all of the above.

Best Regards,

G2L

Ablative bottom paints are generally not a good choice for boats that stay stationary.

Even in the San Francisco bay area we clean quarterly. In summer the water jumps 0.5 to 1 deg F. Then the water goes murky and the grass grows more rapidly.

We have a diver clean the bottom, an epoxy paint, each quarter. He also changes the maxprop zinc at the same time. The bottom paint isn't eroded by cleaning like an ablative.

In the tropics i would expect to clean the bottom as frequently as monthly based on visible growth.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Gone2long]

Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery

I don't usually dive on the boat and clean it -- but my husband does all the time. He sees the benefits as:

1. "Quality time" with the boat making sure everything is working tip-top.
2. Good exercise for his body that is free.
3. Not having to call another person or trust someone else's judgement on something important to him.

While I do occasionally help clean the hull (it's a big full keel boat with a 47ft waterline) this is really "his" thing. He's been cleaning the hull in chilly or downright cold Pacific waters since 2009 and so far sees no reason to change that. He did say, while we were in AK, that if we stayed up there he'd have to get a dry suit! Surprisingly fertile waters capable of a lot of fouling up there in SE AK.

If you exercise at all, why not just make this exercise part of your routine?

PS, while paying for a dive service, racer Dennis Conner in San Diego (which people here report as high fouling...) doesn't use bottom paint on his boat but instead just has a diver clean it once a week. He states it's a break-even proposition for him cost-wise between paying a weekly diver or re-doing bottom paint often enough that it works well. I don't know what kind of slick epoxy paint is on the bottom though.

... Because the first two reasons make it an enjoyable experience, as long as the growth is not too bad. Went from spending only about 1.5 hours to (during my last clean) six hours.

... On #3, because there is nobody else to do it except me. ; )

Thanks for your perspective,

G2L