Buying a STEEL boat WITHOUT survey

[Russ]

I have 35 yo steel boat. You are correct. Bare minimum is ultrasound/ audiogauge. Teak and rust make me walk away fast. That steel under deck is toast! If it were really cheap and he wants a project fine. Figure the teak has to come up and steel decking repaired replaced plus whatever audio gauge to hull indicates. THEN, He can get to work on whatever.

Russ

[ardenlester00]

Age has nothing to do with it! I watched a man in our marina building a 30+ steel sailboat (used the best steel there is). After 2 years he was just about finished with the boat - and went away for the weekend. A passing yacht set-up a large wake and the battery (which was just balanced below deck) shorted out on the hull - set-up the perfect short - and she sank right there in the slip.

[Russ]

Okay I'll bite why did she sink. Not cause she shorted out, did battery acid eventually corrode through the hull?. On the surface the story lacks a cause/reason for the sinking. The battery shorting out can't be the direct cause of the sinking. So educate me please. I have steel boat and always willing to learn.
Reminds me if the Aluminum boats sinking cause of a penny dropped in the bilge!
Thanks russ

[ardenlester00]

We watched it sink that weekend - our slip not 50' from theirs. The story that circulated was that when the tilted battery arced against the hull it burned a hole at that level (below water-line)

I also had a steel boat (32' houseboat) at the time. I immediately pulled my boat and found dozens of holes that had been patched with bondo! I'm not kidding. If I find the picture of it I will post it here. I fiberglassed my hull. It lasted a few years until the glass cracked and "my" boat" then sank in the slip. (I've told the drunk in the rocking chair story)

That's when I bought the wooden Jubilee sailboat (Joel van Sant's old boat) and ferro-lighted the hull. (note: not ferro-cement, rather a fiberglass product - resin, a fiberglass "salt" and other glass stuff)

It made perfect sense to me that a battery arcing against the steel hull would burn a hole through.

It happened at Titusville Marina about '72 or thereabouts.

[foggysail]

The "new" boat owner must be very wealthy and can self insure. My experience is that insurance companies demand proof of a survey. Good luck to him.

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by Russ

Okay I'll bite why did she sink. Not cause she shorted out, did battery acid eventually corrode through the hull?. On the surface the story lacks a cause/reason for the sinking. The battery shorting out can't be the direct cause of the sinking. So educate me please. I have steel boat and always willing to learn.
Reminds me if the Aluminum boats sinking cause of a penny dropped in the bilge!
Thanks russ

Yeah, that boat must have been built out of 22ga.

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by wandering rober

I would want a survey , but I can understand feeling that one was not necessary . Maybe he is familiar with the boat or the price is RIGHT .
I once bought a 49 foot ketch , fiberglass, that had been sitting for seven years .Without a survey , but the price was 105 K less than market price . Also a 38 foot steel ketch with new Whaler and outboard for 12 K , no survey .
From the information that the OP supplied we do not know the circumstances or the deal !

Yes, absolutely, we know nothing of the capabilities of the buyer or how much he is paying for the boat. The world is full of critics.

[pelicanme]

I'm about to begin my 7th Winter of restoring a lovely Dutch steel trawler. The good parts are that I have learned to weld, cut, grind, sandblast, and prepare and paint a large metal object. Soon, I'll become versed in the art of woodworking to replace the interior that I destroyed to access the hull.The bad part is that I could have purchased a sea-ready vessel and gone cruising.

[Reefmagnet]

This makes a good read for anyone thinking of getting an old steel boat...

The saving of WhiteBird

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by pelicanme

I'm about to begin my 7th Winter of restoring a lovely Dutch steel trawler. The good parts are that I have learned to weld, cut, grind, sandblast, and prepare and paint a large metal object. Soon, I'll become versed in the art of woodworking to replace the interior that I destroyed to access the hull.The bad part is that I could have purchased a sea-ready vessel and gone cruising.

Good post.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

This makes a good read for anyone thinking of getting an old steel boat...

The saving of WhiteBird

Yes. That is a classic detailed and well illustrated example.

Shocking to see how much the rust had weakened or holed the metal on the deck and hull.

[boden36]

I am at present working on our steel yacht that we built thirty years ago.
My idea was, that since thirty years had passed, I should inspect every inch of the inside hull, even if it meant butchering cabinet work to do so.
It felt a little extreme to do this, but it only takes a small hole to become a big problem.
Well, when the galley stove was removed and the lining pulled off there was about two feet of heavily rusted steel hull plate along a longitudinal. I am not game to needle gun it in the water for fear of breaking through.
Out of the water it should be an easy fix, probably building up with weld on the inside, but it could have sunk the boat so it makes the whole exercise worthwhile.
The rest of the boat is OK, but it only takes a small amount of hidden corrosion to sink a boat.
When the inside goes back, there will be inspection holes in the lining!
The question arises as to whether an old steel yacht is worth this amount of trouble. It's probably not, but who makes rational decisions about boats anyway? (Especially ones you've built yourself!)

Regards,
Richard.

[ingrid75]

I knew a guy who bought a beautiful and famous steel boat. (Any sailor over the age of 60 would be familiar with her) he was so in love with the boat that he did not get a survey. He began to sandblast the hull to prep her for new paint. A few hours later she was nothing but a big pile of rust. She just disintegrated. Lesson here! Don't fall in love until AFTER the survey.

[Bor the Wolf]

Originally Posted by ingrid75

I knew a guy who bought a beautiful and famous steel boat. (Any sailor over the age of 60 would be familiar with her) he was so in love with the boat that he did not get a survey. He began to sandblast the hull to prep her for new paint. A few hours later she was nothing but a big pile of rust. She just disintegrated. Lesson here! Don't fall in love until AFTER the survey.

Ben there done that and seen others go the same path. If one tries to restore an old steel boat one must have a big wallet. But anyone not having a 87 year old steel/teak boat thoroughly surveyed, must have more than one screw loose.

[ReefRaff]

Originally Posted by captlloyd

Yes, absolutely, we know nothing of the capabilities of the buyer or how much he is paying for the boat. The world is full of critics.

captlloyd, the purpose of the post was not to criticise or cast aspersions that's not what anyone is here for... the purpose is the same as pretty much all posts in this forum which is to toss around ideas, impart knowledge, to hopefully learn something and who knows, perhaps even get enlightened. I know I have learned a thing or two just from this post, cheers to you all. I cherish the breadth of experience and specialist knowledge and most of all the willingness of seadogs to share it, right across the forum. I only say that surveying a boat and especially an older steel boat is what I personally feel comfortable doing and that's based on a combo of my own experiences and hopefully rational thinking.
As far as the money side of things go I don't think it's relevant - safety and insurance issues alone cover that aspect - but if it helps, I believe the figure is somewhere around six. As far as capabilities go, it's also irrelevant unless you know the full extent of the rust... ergo a haul out and survey. I mean, I'm not aware of rust reversal. If you're buying a boat for the purpose of then selling for a quick profit then sure, capabilities and price become factors in the equation. But if you're buying a boat to use... well..