using hydrogen fuel cell to improve gas consumption

[Alan Wheeler]

Yes thank-you Paul. It is a real annoyance to me, the advertising you hear about getting $3 dollars of heat from $1 of input. It is simply not true and false advertising. And usually found out when the first power bill of the month arrives. It's HOW MUCH!!!!

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Pblais

Even that is not always true. It depends on the temperature difference between how cold it is and how much heat is gained. At low temperatures a heat pump fails to deliver affordable heat. That being the case it would better to say that a heat pump can be 3 times more cost effective under perfect circumstances.

In heat pump terminology, the difference (Delta T) between the temperatures where the heat is extracted (the air or ground/Water 'source'), and the temperature where the heat is delivered (the 'sink' - the boat cabin or HWT); is called the “lift.”

The smaller the lift, the higher the efficiency will be.

Ideally, the heat source should be as warm and stable as possible during the heating season, and the heat sink as cool as possible during the cooling season (thus minimizing the Delta T).

That being the case, it would better to say, that a heat pump can be 3 (or more) times more cost effective under less extreme circumstances, in which less heat transfer is required.

Thus, a Heat Pump makes excellent sense in a milder heating climate.

[Robertcateran]

This thread has drifted slightly but still interesting. If you want to get the most out of a heat pump you try to organise some place where heat is stored. You can simply dig a deep hole and use the more stable temperatures deep down. In summer you slightly heat it while you are cooling yourself and in winter you will be slight cooling it while you are warming yourself. If you don't have access to an underground system, you ca store in phase change material in an insulated container or if you have the space, in a big insulated water tank.

[Jackstee]

Actually you can buy these fuel cells in UK and France. On my last check they were only around 2 kw and run off ethanol or something.
They are trying to make on that runs off bottled gas.
Aparently they are trying to get more efficiant ways to have electricity on board without using gen sets or none electrical motors.They are the size of a small suitcase..
Cost, around 15 thousand pounds each at the moment.
Although they bench run ok, they actually took one on a ralley and unfortunately it broke down after a few days. But it was apparently very good in providing all the electricity for fridges, tv's etc without using main engines .

Steve

[Talbot]

Originally Posted by Jackstee

Actually you can buy these fuel cells in UK and France. On my last check they were only around 2 kw and run off ethanol or something.Steve

These have the same concept, but are different chemically, and are expensive, but easy to make. They are also significantly less powerfull than the hydrogen fuel cell.

The hydrogen fuel cell has also been around for some time. The problem is the powering of it. Research has proven that the most efficient way to do this is the cracking of diesel to access the hydrogen. What has not been achieved yet is the miniturisation of that process.

[Dennis Sol]

Hydrogen Commerce - HYDROGEN SHIPS & SUBS

[bene505]

A fuel cell that makes hydrogen would be a great dump load for your wind generator and solar. On windy days you would make fuel for your hydrogen-powerd dinghy.

[Chief Engineer]

Sometimes I think the minimalist sailors are on to something.

[hellosailor]

"A fuel cell that makes hydrogen would be a great dump load for your wind generator"
You just wire the genset to a pressure tank filled with salt water via two carbon rods, and let it split the water into H+O. How and what you choose to do with it, is your option, but hydroxygen generation afloat is old mature technology.