New Engine design

[Alan Wheeler]

Ummmmm, OK so I am one of those that go by the "if it's too good to be true, it probably isn't".
But take a look at this. Hmmmmm, I just don't know. There are many things that my head just can't get around on this one.
http://www.angellabsllc.com/mytengine.html

[knottybuoyz]

That sure is an interesting piece of kit eh Wheels?

Sure does sound "too good to be true" and probably find them on e-Bay in a month or so right alongside the "Perpetual Motion" & "Free Energy" gizmos. But, on the other hand, the combustion cycle principals seem sound. If it does work it has the potential to produce a lot of power from a small package. I noticed there was no indication of HP or fuel consumption stats. The video's they offered, although crappy quality, appear to be of the engine on a dyno running all out!!! I'd like to see a real world application of the engine with throttle capabilities to see how the engine reacts under loads. Even though it's small it'd need a large flywheel to handle transmission loads at lower RPM's. Would also like to see some endurance stats. I don't see how they can lube the cylinder walls from the illustrations & cutaways.

I'll pass this onto our R&D guys. They're doing some stuff with alternative propulsion systems, mostly hybrid's & fuel cells, and they might find this interesting.

[yotphix]

If you start looking you will find there are several "rotary" type engines in development right now, and probably have been for a century. (I know they say it isn't rotary, but it's the best way to describe it i think). All of them make the same claims of high torque, light weight, fewer parts, smoother power delivery better hp/weight ratio, fuel efficiency etc etc. None ever seem to make it to market and even we lay people look at them and say the very same thing knottybouyz mentions. Lube will be the problem. Add incomplete combustion to the list of problems. Most are presented as air motors as well and are much better suited to that.
The Jirnov (being tested by the us navy) and the one from AET come to mind. Both appeared in Gizmag at some point.
www.gizmag.com
The computer animatics always look great though. One day when materials science catches up with the ideas(strong slippery non-wearing materials), all IC engines will likely be some sort of rotary.

[Alan Wheeler]

Oh sorry guys. I didn't realise the site didn't have the info. I stumbled across this on Metacafe, but figured not everyone will have that, so I found the website and used the link, presuming all the info would be there. So if you want to see the video of it, pop over to metacafe and take a look.
Unfortunatly I had sound problems halfway through, so I don't know all the details. But here is what I did hear and hence a little scepticle. If however this is true, this will turn the world on it's ear and I reckon we should all buy shares ASAP. Run don't walk to your nearest broker.

OK so firstly, the guy had a demo engine infront of him. It was about the size of a 10hp electric motor for comparison. 14"x14" to be exact. He is claiming it has the cu" displacement of 850Cu". It is 32 cylinder and is a replacement for a 3000lb 6 cylinder 1000Cu" truck engine. The is also a 64 cyl version with a Cu" rating of 1700. The 32cyl if I understand correctly, is 2000-3000hp
He then showed the body of the car motor unit. It is only 25lb, measures 4 1/2" x 7" and produces betwenn 200-500Hp. It runs on pure Soya desiel oil and will get 150miles/Gallon. It uses no oil for lubrication, all lubrication is done via the fuel oil.
So now do you see why I am scrtaching my head?? This ain't just another take on an engine, this is major major world changing stuff, up there with man on the moon.

[Tropic Cat]

Wheels

I watched the running demo. The engine slowly winds down and only runs for about 1 minute. Looks like they're having some friction issues.

Now if we can get this guy some new bearings and a water cooling jacket, I'd volunteer my boat to be a testbed!! Let's see, 800 pounds of torque at 800 rpm, and 1/4 gallon of fuel an hour, would equate to say 80 water miles to a gallon? 40 gallons gets me to Europe.

Anyone wanna buy a mast and rigging? Can you say planing multihull?

Rick in Florida

[Alan Wheeler]

Rick, that one was an air motor. NOT the desile motor. Interesting as I have not seen this engine actually run yet. The only video he has of anything running is the air motors. These are powered by 150PSI of air and at the Cu" he is describing, that is a seriouse amount of air to maintain so the slowing down will be as the air volume and pressure is dropping.
So what I want to know is, has he actually get a "self powered motoer" yet or is it still so conseptual that the only working model is powered extenally.
I think there are some wild claims if there is not a working self powered model yet.
You would also think the guy would have working models running at the show's he is going to. But so far the only thing he has is a "still" unit. We have no idea if it works. I have not seen any "please send money" questions posed, so I am not sure if this is all a money ploy. I just don't know.
There are a few claims made that made me skeptical from the begining.
850cu" is a lot of area for something that is only 14 x 14" in total.
Although I can't see the shaft very well, (notice no video is clear. All low quality or you see nothing of interest) It does not look very large in diameter. How can it handle 3000Hp.
If the thing can produce 3000Hp, how do you couple that to the motor body and thus to the body it is sitting in. 14" diameter is a small footprint to have 3000Hp swinging from on mounts. The car engine of only 4 1/2" at 500Hp is another issuse again.
And the last one, I have not seen any torque specs anywhere so far (maybe I am blind) but Hp without torque is a useless figure.

[Tropic Cat]

The engine has 4 cylinders which equal 50 cubic inches, but it fires each one 4 times per one crankshaft rotation. Since a conventional internal conbustion engine fires each cylinder once for every two crankshaft rotations they are saying it's equivelent to 850 cubic inches.

Actually, I agree with you. I'd love to see this actually work out, but devices like this seldom do. Usually it's a get rich scheme by someone who has just enough of an invention completed to fool investors.

There's been a lot written on this engine, for example here's a spreadsheet which animates the engines inner workings.

http://thepracticalsailor.com/Files/.../animation.xls

It's one weird looking contraption. I'm pretty confident this one will never get off the ground.

Rick in Florida

[BilgeRat]

I've been working in the guts of boats for awhile and I can't seem to figure out what makes the whirlygig work. What makes the thing rotate?? other then outside air pressure. How does the fuel get in and how's it compressed?

It looks like a fancy siren.

Yours aye!

[Alan Wheeler]

The air getting in and exhaust going out is the easy part. It's how the two opposing piston sets turn one then the other that I can't figure. What stops it going the other way is one question. One big backfire could start the thing into the oposite direction from what it looks. I guess I am wrong, but it is how it looks.
There are working animations on the site that show how it works, but so far apart from the airmotor, that's the only video of the thing in motion.

Dosen't anyone have a teeny tiny bit of suspicion about a design that brags about being featured in "American Antigravity Magazine" ?

If I believed what was written I'd invest my life savings in it in a minute....

[Alan Wheeler]

What's that magazine? don't tell me, it's for nutters that believe in the future of anti-gravity??

[yotphix]

For the sake of comparison, the engines I look after produce 2/3 of the horsepower they project at alittle more than 3x his "effective" displacement while weighing in at about the mass of an suv. They do this quite reliably, day in day out until we run out of fuel or stop them. Race cars, his basis for his "projected" output figures, kinda blow up after a race or two. Plus, unless I misread him, he just figures that he should be able to get those kind of outputs because race tuners do it with their engines.
Did anyone read the forums from the site? The updates the occasionally post say that they dont have an internal combution engine at all. In fact they admit to having been so far incapable of producing a round cylinder on the first prototype and of producing matching pistons and bore on the next. This apparently due to miscommunication between designer and machinist! (It's called a "drawing". It has important info like "dimensions" on it!)
Other posters there refer to some of the 1970's attempts at the same engine that they worked on or knew about. They didn't run either.
Air motors are not that hard to make. Combustion motors are. Compression ignition motors are particularly succeptible to wear and if they were to be lubed soley by vegetable oil under those loads they would not last too long.
Don't hold your breath.
Oh, and they are looking for lots of loot. The aren't asking you and me because we don't have the kind of loot they are looking for. If it really looked promising, auto makers would bite. Remember the Ballard fuel cell? It was bought back when it was the size of a rail car. By Benz IIRC (I seem to remember that GM was interested for a while too)
Oh, and allen, it probably will go both ways. Just think, if you have a reversing starter motor, you don't need a reversing gearbox!

[Alan Wheeler]

Imagine the red face you would have when starting a stalled engine at the lights, then only to find you have five rev gears and one fwd. :-0