Well, Why Wouldn't You Buy a New Leopard 38?

[Blades-Dreaming]

Let's say you have decided to buy new and you have the budjet.

A catamaran is the required hull design

Most of your sailing will be short handed, often single handed.

Long term live aboard.

Crossing a few oceans but most of your time spent cruising not far from land or at anchor.

You know the typical scenario just retired or semi retired, hope your other half will get in the swing of things.

So back to the boat.

Enough room for two. I would say heaps of room.
Room for guests.
Good galley and saloon.
Nice solid biminni over out door eating area.
Helm that's well positioned, not to low not to high.
Most activities can be controlled from helm station.
Hull design slender but roomy accomodations
Fridge freeze roll out boxes looks like a great way to help keep the cold air in while giving easy access to food, does not take up counter space.
Performance looks more than acceptable for cruising.
Not to long at the dock.
Not to wide
Good sized Yanmar engines, 29hp option
Seems to be well made, solid.
Well it has been voted Multihull boat of the year 2009.

But I keep asking myself "have I missed something"

No chart table?? Maybe it's redundant with all the chart plotters and digital maps. Plan your route on the salon table?
That's the only facility I could see missing.

If you can open my eyes to what I can't see, please do.

Scott

One day you have to stop dreaming, wake up and smell the coffee.
All going well I might one bright sunny morning in a far away land.

[Captain Bill]

The leopard 38 was one of the boats that I considered. I did not like the anchor being below the tramp. I consider access to the anchor a significant issue, though others may disagree. It's a really nice boat, though I thought it a bit tight for my wife and I, but we're both reasonably tall people. We ended up getting an Endeavourcat 44. There wasn't much difference in price though there was a lot more room. The Endeavourcat has some issues of its own like a higher CG and a narrower beam which results in more of a trawler like ride than the Leopard would give.

[nettlesbe]

Is brand new a firm requirement? I'm looking in the same range as you, but leaning a little towards something 2-5 years old, like a leopard 40, or lagoon 38. Just seems like a little more for the money, and I'm also hoping to find something with all additional items already on board (dinghy, solar, watermaker,etc).

What kind price are you looking at, and what options does that include? I've seen $279 base price quoted, but haven't investigated yet myself. If you start edging up in mid $300's, you can just about get a 4 yr old manta.

[Gordon]

Have you considered the Seawinds at all as they make boats in you desired range. Then of course you may want to consider the FP Lipari 41 or the next step up the Orana 44. Just a thought.

Gordon.

[Blades-Dreaming]

Hi Captain Bill

Thank you for the anchor note.
I guess that means a swim each time the anchor comes up dirty.
I will be having my first sail on one this Saturday. So will try and get them to drop anchor and see how the operation goes.

Have not seen an Endeavourcat 44, maybe it is American, I'll have a look online. I'm just under 6' so will look at headroom as well.

Hi Nettlesbe
I have been looking at second hand a lot. But when I compare the prices and decide what equipment I think I need it comes back to buying new. I always brought second hand cars/vans but 4 years ago brought a new van. Now I know all about the history and if I run the oil down and damage the engine I know whats happened. As I'm looking to own this long term 10 - 15yrs I think starting new may be the way to go.

Second hand Lagoon 38 would be a good buy but the galley seems very short on storage. Have seen a few online with replacement aluminium biminni's which are a great addition. Believe it or not I'm not a fan of sitting in the sun but love sitting in the shade with a little breeze.

Hope to be seeing a second hand Leopard 40 this weekend as well. The asking price is more than a new Leopard 38. I guess you have to drill down into the actual costs to get it set up. The price will be above $300,000US I'm in the UK so it will be over £200,000. Not familiar with the Manta, have seem them but can't remember what the layout is, will have another look.

Hi Gordon
Have looked at the Seawind but don't like the helm position, never actually been on one. Even viewed, online, the 1250 but didn't look right to me. Orana out of my budget and a little big. Lipari can not see how the helm is any thing more than a day sail position. As I said above I'm not keen on sitting in the direct sun. I'm already trying to work out how to improve the cover over the Leopard helm and I haven't even set foot on the boat yet. I tend to like things simple as possible so a Lagoon to me looks to over the top and cumbersome.

If I've said some thing obviously wrong let me know as I'm buying a boat with out prior experience.

Thanks for the responses and any one else feel free to help point me in the right direction.

Scott

I'll have my head down in that anchor locker faster than a ?????????. I don't know, but fast any way.

[Laidback]

NEW MODEL LEOPARD

Originally Posted by Blades-Dreaming

Let's say you have decided to buy new and you have the budjet.

Enough room for two. I would say heaps of room.
Room for guests.
Good galley and saloon.
Nice solid biminni over out door eating area.
Helm that's well positioned, not to low not to high.
Most activities can be controlled from helm station.
Hull design slender but roomy accomodations
Fridge freeze roll out boxes looks like a great way to help keep the cold air in while giving easy access to food, does not take up counter space.
Performance looks more than acceptable for cruising.
Not to long at the dock.
Not to wide
Good sized Yanmar engines, 29hp option
Seems to be well made, solid.
Well it has been voted Multihull boat of the year 2009.
But I keep asking myself "have I missed something"
If you can open my eyes to what I can't see, please do.
Scott

Perhaps you might like to ask the manufacturers of this brand NEW, model if it is true that on a delivery to Europe that one of these Catamarans lost its mast. AND that on another delivery from the yard in China to South East Asia another brand new Leopard 38 also lost it's mast ??

[Blades-Dreaming]

Hi Laidback,

Now thats what I'm looking for.

I know all to well that not all manufactured items are perfect. In fact none are, but getting down to the possible issues/problems is always hard.

I shall make the enquiries and see what response I get. I have not heard of this possible problem.

Often it is a companies response that is more important than the out come.

A good response shows clarity and determination. A bad one shows lack of willingness to engage/acknowledge.

So do we have an issue with design changes. I will look to see how the mast is stepped, is it different from the original Leopard 38. Do we have a rigging failure that would be easy to solve or a design issue, not so easy to solve?

Thanks Laidback

[Laidback]

Blades-Dreaming,
The report relating to mast failures occurred on initial deliveries this year - the one in your neck of the woods was probably news in the UK, as it is understood that the crew were concerned that the inability to cut free the mast and rig would result in a hull being holed.
On the delivery of the 1st new L 38 to the Annapolis Show end of last year, this boat averaged very high SOG's on a daily basis. However it got off bad start after leaving Capetown - an engine had to be replaced in Namibia following sea water ingress. Another engine had similar problems, these were addressed - found to be a design fault in ventage. After that the boat made good ground in time for the Show.

[emcmia]

You may find that buying a 2 to 4 yr old cat built by a quality builder (Privilege - now Alliaura or Lagoon might be a better route, as such issues as design flaws have been corrected or at least known. In addition, you will get more boat for the money. If you're concerned about condition, employ a qualified surveyor to check the hull, engines and rigging - that's what they do and it's worth the money, if can't do it yourself.

[schoonerdog]

Were I took get a catamaran, my first question would be of safety. And the first area of safety I would look is how much reserve bouyancy it has in engine compartments or bow lockers with water tight bulkheads above the waterline to help prevent sinking. That's where your typical charter will fall short, as they often use that space for births rather than reserve bouyancy of water tight compartments.

After that, I'd look at things like engine access, SA/D, and stowage. Again, many charter boats will tend to be heavier and also have less in the way of stowage of galley supplies and locker space as they are designed for people to be living out of suitcases during a charter and typically they spend a lot of time eating ashore. Think hotel room vs house.

A charter boat will be for accomodating lots of people, safety for long ocean passages isn't a business criteria because after the initial delivery, it's not done. Having lots of storage for things is also a cost generator and needless on a charter boat that's not going to be carrying wordly possessions, but instead carrying temporary vacation stuff for a few people over a couple weeks.

I'd also look at the type of hull construction used, the quality of the resins, thought that went into rigging concerns and sailing, visibility from the helm. I'd far rather get a well maintained PDQ 42 than a newer boat of the typical charter vintages. More storage, far better galley, more livable for live aboards, and better safety with better quality fixtures (italian lighting fixtures vs cheap plastic lights).

[tuskie]

Love the Leopard helm and cockpit layout. In fact the whole boat design is innovative, but still conventional enough not to put off cruisers. I think they are big enough for liveaboard for a couple. This matter is a compromise of a personal nature.

Am in a similiar buying market to you, however two things concern me regarding the Leopard 38 and Leopard cats in general: the sea delivery means that new buyers get a used boat (OK, it's "sea trialed") and the hull is constructed, I believe, using polyester resin and balsa composite. This is probably the cheapest construction option. IMHO epoxy and foam will deliver a "more certain" lifespan in real life cruising use.

[paulrack]

Epoxy is a whole lot more expensive and you have to spray it. Epoxy will save weight, but it will also severely limit the number of builders you can buy from.

Most polyester boats are treated below the water line to stop osmosis anyway.

[smj]

Originally Posted by paulrack

Epoxy is a whole lot more expensive and you have to spray it. Epoxy will save weight, but it will also severely limit the number of builders you can buy from.

Most polyester boats are treated below the water line to stop osmosis anyway.

Why do you have to spray it?

[sww914]

Spraying it is news to me, I've made epoxy racecar parts and I haven't ever sprayed any epoxy. Maybe he means spray paint on it? We were going to spray paint on it anyway so that wasn't a consideration in those instances.

[tuskie]

Many epoxy and foam composite cats are manufactured using techniques other than female moulding. These techniques (strip foam, duflex panels, etc) require filling,fairing and painting. Perhaps the reference to "spraying" as in "spray painting" as a finish to epoxy.
Epoxy (and vinylester, for that matter) may also be moulded using a variety of lay-up techniques in a similiar manner to polyester resin. With a moulded gelcoat a vinylester or epoxy boat will not need "spraying", and it will be stronger, lighter, won't rot nor suffer from osmosis.
Any way it is made, provided the workmanship is sound, IMHO epoxy and foam (or vinylester to a lesser extent) will produce a superior product to one made of polyester/balsa.
The only advantage of poly/balsa is cost saving. This, and cheap labour is the reason that Leopards can be sold for the price. I believe they should be even cheaper! But hey, they'll probably still be very functional cruisers.