The rise of electric Boats

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by newhaul

It is just a bit of fun and a potential option. You already know the only reason I leave saltwater environment is to drydock for hull maintance

I knew. Just having a bit of fun back at ya.

If you think burying the rail with the salt spray in your face on a windy day gets the heart pumping, try passing a 3x5 tow (around 1100ft long and 100ft wide) in a narrow spot where you have to run 15ft from the edge of the barge because the river is narrow.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I knew. Just having a bit of fun back at ya.

If you think burying the rail with the salt spray in your face on a windy day gets the heart pumping, try passing a 3x5 tow (around 1100ft long and 100ft wide) in a narrow spot where you have to run 15ft from the edge of the barge because the river is narrow.

I'm used to dodging 8k to 10k teu container slugs and the occasional aircraft carrier in the TSS so yes I know the racing heart at 20° heel and a 2m wake in close quarters . Keeps ya young and on yer toes.

[Tupaia]

Are we wasting out time.



https://irei.com/news/porsche-siemen...l-plant-chile/

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Are we wasting out time.



https://irei.com/news/porsche-siemen...l-plant-chile/

Great idea but again where is the large scale infrastructure to support ?

Doesn't matter what the vehicle/ vessel power source ( even sailing) it requires a solid infrastructure to support it.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Not ideal but balanced by having several times the power and still only making 3kts.



Your drifter will take you upwind in 5kts at 2.5-3.0kts...that's pretty good.

Yeah, I think overstated that, 2.0-2.5kt.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

You misunderstood...7.5kw of solar was an array of panels nominally rated at 7.5kw. Generally, a good rule of thumb is solar panels will generate 4 times their nominal rating in kwh...so 7.5kw of solar would generate about 30kwh per day or about 90kwh in 3 days to replace the 80kwh plus run house loads and account for efficiency losses storing that power.



A 7.5kw array is massively too large for a 34x14ft cat even if you cover every square inch of topsides.



Yes, if you move up to a 60x26ft cat, you get close to being able to fit 7.5kw of panels but that assumes no rigging and the entire boat covered in panels...plus a boat 4 times the size is going to take more power to move at the same speed.

Malaysian company is putting 11kW or so on a 40’ power at. They claim 4kt 24/7 in calm seas, calm winds good sun.

https://www.azura-marine.com/aquanima-40
That’s the kind of boat that could do the great loop.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

This is wrong.



Where this idea that you can downsize the power comes from is the automotive world.



A small car might have a 200hp (peak output) engine but cruising at freeway speeds, it only needs 40-50hp (see the old VW bugs that only had 50hp motors and could do 60-70mph). The reason they put higher HP rated engines in is for acceleration. It took those VWs forever to get up to freeway speeds and they were total slugs off the line. By putting in more powerful engines, cars develop more HP at low speed/RPM greatly enhancing acceleration.



Electric motors generating greater low end torque created a higher percentage of the rated HP at low RPM (HP = torque * rpm) allowing for the use of lower peak HP electric motors to get similar acceleration characteristics. The steady cruise speed power demands were not controlling the motor HP rating.



For steady state operation...such as a displacement cruising boat running at a constant speed...power is power. Doesn't matter what the source is. Instead of acceleration driving engine sizing, it's maintaining cruising speed against adverse conditions, so electric or ICE both are up in their ideal power output range and the low end torque is not relevant (also, because the prop can slip while accelerating, a ICE can quickly spin up to an RPM where HP output is greater).



Maybe if you are looking at a small planing dingy, there could be some truth as the low end torque helps pop it onto plane.

It makes a difference if you adjust the prop diameter and pitch, and the motor gearing to optimize for the electric motor.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Great idea but again where is the large scale infrastructure to support ?

Doesn't matter what the vehicle/ vessel power source ( even sailing) it requires a solid infrastructure to support it.

Unless they find a way to store hydrogen as a hydride efficiently hydrogen will never make a significant impact in the consumer market, too many problems with storage pressures, volume and weight of storage containers for compressed hydrogen.

[jbinbi]

Originally Posted by newhaul

And what subsidies do i personally enjoy?

Let's just start with farming:

You wake up, pour yourself a bowl of cornflakes. Oh, subsidy on corn. Add the milk. Subsidy on the milk. Get in the car. Subsidy on corn , ethanol in the gas.

You haven't left your house yet, and subsidies all over. You might say you didn't ask for these, but you do benefit from them. The fact is that if the US pulled all the subsidies immediately, the entire economy collapses in the next few minutes. It would take 10-20 years of slowly winding down all of them not to dramatically impact the world.

[Narfi]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Malaysian company is putting 11kW or so on a 40’ power at. They claim 4kt 24/7 in calm seas, calm winds good sun.

https://www.azura-marine.com/aquanima-40
That’s the kind of boat that could do the great loop.

Yes, but I will build a yacht intended to spend <5% of its life on the great loop, the rest of the time it would be much more practical as a sailboat.

The idea is to find a balance of compromises between solar/generator/battery/motors that will work 'ok' for a year on a yacht designed to be a sail boat(not a motor boat). IF (big if) there is a solution where they can come into balance perhaps even running a generator a couple hours per day and running silent 50+% of the day it may become interesting enough to do as it will produce a yacht capable of supplying every imaginable luxury under normal sailing/cruising life with its excess solar and batteries.

(again this is just a thought exercise for me, I am not an electric evangelist or anything, just exploring ideas knowing full well that diesel is the tried and true reliable method)

For those experienced in such things, how much quieter is electric than diesel? Enough that the bodies of those on the boat will feel less drained after a day of motoring in the droning sound and vibration? Or not even worth considering into the equation?

[Hodgdon87]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

Let's just start with farming:

You wake up, pour yourself a bowl of cornflakes. Oh, subsidy on corn. Add the milk. Subsidy on the milk. Get in the car. Subsidy on corn , ethanol in the gas.

You haven't left your house yet, and subsidies all over. You might say you didn't ask for these, but you do benefit from them. The fact is that if the US pulled all the subsidies immediately, the entire economy collapses in the next few minutes. It would take 10-20 years of slowly winding down all of them not to dramatically impact the world.

Let's not forget about the massive subsidies that go to the fossil fuel industry. In the US, they are second only to agriculture subsidies. I always find it pretty funny when people complain about subsidies for solar or electric vehicles but have no issues with fossil fuel subsidies, especially considering the "green" subsidies are tiny in comparison.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

Let's just start with farming:

You wake up, pour yourself a bowl of cornflakes. Oh, subsidy on corn. Add the milk. Subsidy on the milk. Get in the car. Subsidy on corn , ethanol in the gas.

You haven't left your house yet, and subsidies all over. You might say you didn't ask for these, but you do benefit from them. The fact is that if the US pulled all the subsidies immediately, the entire economy collapses in the next few minutes. It would take 10-20 years of slowly winding down all of them not to dramatically impact the world.

You are really good at supposition I eat mostly food I either raised grew or caught .
I don't drive . Walk or bike everywhere. ( occasional public transportation paid fares )

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Hodgdon87

Let's not forget about the massive subsidies that go to the fossil fuel industry. In the US, they are second only to agriculture subsidies. I always find it pretty funny when people complain about subsidies for solar or electric vehicles but have no issues with fossil fuel subsidies, especially considering the "green" subsidies are tiny in comparison.

Recalculate that one plant juice is not as highly subsidized as one would want you to believe. Alternative energy is more subsidized than they want you to know .
Dig really deep

[zstine]

Originally Posted by Simon.Sails

Where did you get these figures from? I'm currently in contact with them regarding my future cat and you're nowhere near what I'm currently quoted for a twin SD10/SP10 system cost-wise.

https://oceanvolt.com/twin-saildrive-10/
shows $70,000 Euro, give or take... unless I'm missing something?

[zstine]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

This is wrong.

. . .

For steady state operation...such as a displacement cruising boat running at a constant speed...power is power. Doesn't matter what the source is. Instead of acceleration driving engine sizing, it's maintaining cruising speed against adverse conditions, so electric or ICE both are up in their ideal power output range and the low end torque is not relevant (also, because the prop can slip while accelerating, a ICE can quickly spin up to an RPM where HP output is greater).

Maybe if you are looking at a small planing dingy, there could be some truth as the low end torque helps pop it onto plane.

Yes, so you support me saying "OceanVolt claims are marketing BS"... I hope they walk back their claims before you actually buy something, since 10kw is clearly not 20-30hp.. I'd have a hard time doing business with a company like that.