Older PDQ 32 (36?) vs Newer Gemini 105Mc

[Krakato]

My wife and I are planning on becoming liveaboard Caribbean coastal cruisers as soon as we can retire (33 months to go, but whose counting!). If all goes as planned we will pay cash for a boat and sail away with no bills and live off our pension.

We had pretty well decided upon looking for a used Gemini 105Mc, but lately I've seen a few PDQ 32s that were in our price range (~$100-150K). The PDQs are obviously about 10+ years older than the Gemini's to get them all into the same price range. (Geminis were in the 5-10 year old range and the PDQs in the 20 year old range).

We do not plan on doing any ocean crossings and neither of us are experienced sailors (but are learning as fast as we can). We are both pretty good with our hands for having to repair and engineer things (both of us have backgrounds in physics and engineering) so we are both good at DYI repairs.

I'm curious what the collective knowledge/opinion of the forums are about this. Are were better to go with an older PDQ vs a somewhat new Gemini? (assuming both boats are in good condition)

Will the repairs on the older PDQs eat our lunch?

Just to throw a twist here, what if the PDQ was a 36 (around 20 years old)?

Thanks in advance!
Mike

[deckofficer]

Mike,

Until someone comes along with real 1st hand experience, I'll share what little I know. The PDQ 36 was made till 2005 and one that new is currently for sale. Search for boats on Boats.com

I like the build of the PDQ and believe it or, I prefer the regular model that uses a pair of gas 9.9 hp outboards over the twin inboard diesel of the LRC model. The reason for this is the ease of swapping out the gasoline outboards for a pair of Torqeedo 4.0 electric outboards. I have promised myself that the next time I'm cruising I would have a fully electric galley, no gasoline or propane on board and the electric propulsion battery bank at 48 volts would also be the inverter bank. The dinghy would also be electric along with the electric lithium kayak I use now for longer range (70 nm) exploring. Just my choice.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by deckofficer

Mike,

Until someone comes along with real 1st hand experience, I'll share what little I know. The PDQ 36 was made till 2005 and one that new is currently for sale. Search for boats on Boats.com

I like the build of the PDQ and believe it or, I prefer the regular model that uses a pair of gas 9.9 hp outboards over the twin inboard diesel of the LRC model. The reason for this is the ease of swapping out the gasoline outboards for a pair of Torqeedo 4.0 electric outboards. I have promised myself that the next time I'm cruising I would have a fully electric galley, no gasoline or propane on board and the electric propulsion battery bank at 48 volts would also be the inverter bank. The dinghy would also be electric along with the electric lithium kayak I use now for longer range (70 nm) exploring. Just my choice.

Bob,

I understand your passion for electric populsion and that you will go down that path but can you point to any real success with a cruiser using Torqueedo's for propulsion of a larger cat.

Fair enough on dingy's but several tried in Australia but I have not heard of any long term success story with Torquedos, yet. Therefore I would be wary of recommending to someone to propel a 36ft PQD with Torquedos at this point. Do you have a successful example?

[deckofficer]

Nope, I do not, but that is Torqeedo's teething problems. I believe they are addressing this in a larger unit for sailboats. There are other electric outboards, but more power than what is required for the PDQ. The smallest Aquawatt outboard at 13 KW is more than twice what is needed, but the size footprint fits a 9.9 gas outboard. aquawatt green power electric outboard motors

[Jerry Woodward]

I started a similar thread a couple of years ago and there is quite a bit of information there from real Gemini and PDQ owners:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...5mc-67888.html

However, it ultimately morphed into the same discussion of electric power, which is interesting theoretically, but not really germane to the question.

[Krakato]

Jerry,

Thanks! I'll check that thread out.

Cheers,
Mike

[Tropic Cat]

20 year old PDQs with diesels would be a very good option. The heavier build of PDQs will minimize things breaking and the diesels are a must have for cruising... charging...redundancy...etc.

[Cheechako]

I'd let the bridgedeck clearance decide for me! That or just having the newer boat might be well worth it.....

[SeaKing]

We had hull 34002, which was the second PDQ built. It was an original 34 Classic with outboards. They made about 10-15 of the 34's before stretching the stern by 2feet to be able to carry the diesels on the 36 LRC(Long Range Classic). Quite a few of the 34s were stretched to 36, the factory converted several and a couple of people did there own.

We really enjoyed our boat, I liked the outboards for simplicity but I felt we were under powered in heavy weather. I do know several couples who lived on the boats and cruised the Caribbean with the outboards. It is nice to be able to remove the engines easy and not a terrible cost to have new ones. i think you could put a little more HP if you wanted to, the 9.9 Yamaha High Thrust was the standard engine. Our boat originally had two Evinrude 15 HP's, but we changed them after two seasons and the high thrust engine was much better.

I personally would go with a 36 PDQ over a Gemini or a 32 PDQ. The Gemini's do not seem to hold up as well in my opinion, we see plenty of them here in the Chesapeake and after a few years they just don't look as good as they did new.

Look for the 36's or maybe a 34, they are out there occasionally.

Enjoy you quest and good luck.
C King

[Tropic Cat]

It's difficult to compare these two boats. Gemini is lightly built, making them fast and fun to sail.

PDQs are built like a battleship and were designed to cruise.

Not to say PDQ's aren't fun to sail or Geminis can't cruise.... but they are Apples and Oranges.

[Dulcesuenos]

As others stated theres a reason the PDQ cost more. They are very well built. The obs are nice in you almost always have a spare off your dinghy if needed. We could have purchased a 10 year newer gem when we bought our cat and their prices keep dropping. We wanted quality twin motors etc.... the pdw owners i have spoken to love their boats both 32 and 36's but have heard storage is an issue. What about a lagoon 37 or smaller privelege ?

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Tropic Cat

It's difficult to compare these two boats. Gemini is lightly built, making them fast and fun to sail.

PDQs are built like a battleship and were designed to cruise.

Not to say PDQ's aren't fun to sail or Geminis can't cruise.... but they are Apples and Oranges.

Re. PDQs, there are 2 good blogs to read:
Sail Delmarva
Zero To Cruising | Fun-loving couple sailing the Caribbean on their catamaran

Frequency of repair: Even older, the PDQs are far more solid. No boards to fail, no blisters, better systems.

Durability. It can be very hard to guess the age of a PDQ.

Bridge deck clearance. Geminis hit all of the waves. Is this a problem? It's more a matter of noise than function and it does not hurt them.

Speed. The Gemini and PDQ32 are very close. I can easily sail past the Geminis in my neighborhood, but I also suspect I might be more competitive and more experienced. Probably dead even, based upon ratings and speed polars. With a breeze, the PDQ36 is both faster and far more seaworthy.

PDQ 32 vs 36. While the PDQ 32 and the Gemini make for fun comparison, the 36 is considerably larger and not a dirrect conparison.

Diesels required? There are more than a few circumnavigators that have outboards. Charging is with solar these days. Hot water by propane heater.

Space/livability. That's personal. You'll have to see both.

Cruising. Both have sailed around the world.

-----

I like the 105 Mc. Not the Legacy.
Sail Delmarva: It's Sweet When You Stay in Love With the Girl You Brought

[Sonosailor]

When PDQ was still in business, and I was shopping, I called them and asked about their 32. They informed me that they did not make the 32 for the offshore market, and did not want to talk me into it. They also didn't work at all in talking me up to the 36. I think they accepted my info - poor Canuck - and left it at that. Both boats were primarily sold to the US market, taking advantage of the exchange rate.

That being said, most would suggest that the Geminis are a stretch as an offshore boat, regardless of the manufacturer's efforts at promoting it that way. I doubt I'd be happy on the way to Bermuda in either of them (although there are people suggesting a Stiletto for the trip somewhere on this forum, and I recall Pete Goss raced a 24 foot cat from Europe to the US years ago, so please don't gang up on me).

[Tropic Cat]

If the truth be told the older I get, the more comforts I want. When I was 25 a Stiletto would have been the right boat. These days, I'll keep my Catalac although I've always admired the Tobago 35!!

[Sonosailor]

Originally Posted by Tropic Cat

If the truth be told the older I get, the more comforts I want. When I was 25 a Stiletto would have been the right boat. These days, I'll keep my Catalac although I've always admired the Tobago 35!!

Indeed, I drove my dad's car down to Florida and picked up a Stiletto just after I turned 25. I figured if I was going to make a big mistake I should make it early and have time to recover. Enjoyed it on the Saint John River in New Brunswick for a decade (mind you - short summers), then my wife got tired of the camping life and our backs would not take it so well.