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Old 21-09-2021, 21:43   #1
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New Boat vs Used Boat?

Which is better. To buy a solid well-surveyed used boat or a brand new boat with a warranty.

Lets say you have a million to spend. You plan to sail halfway around the world. You are looking at acquiring a sailing Catamaran to do it in.

Is it better to buy new or used given that you might have several hundred thousand in the kitty for repairs by saving on the used boat vs prepaid repairs via a warranty?

My limited experience with generator and outboard manufacturers is that the warranty is worthless?

What do you all think?

The attached video is overly long but covers a new boat buyer struggling with getting his warrantees covered.

https://youtu.be/EAEaeM4uH2g
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Old 22-09-2021, 02:45   #2
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Re: New Boat vs Used Boat?

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Originally Posted by dc9loser View Post
The attached video is overly long but covers a new boat buyer struggling with getting his warrantees covered.

https://youtu.be/EAEaeM4uH2g
Sorry to be the continuing sombre voice, but, as the old saying goes, "boats are holes in the water into which you pour money".

Warranties will do you a fat lot of good when you're anchored off a remote Tongan island (there are 167 in the Tongan group alone) and you want to invoke your warranty to have something fixed/replaced. We waited for two weeks once just for a head gasket to be shipped from Volvo. Fortunately, there was also some excellent wreck diving in Vanuatu!

Not sure how your two-year plan is proceeding, but if it were a new boat, perhaps spend a year somewhere local, effectively doing an extended sea trial and getting everything sorted out. Maybe installing some redundancies as Auspicious, I think it was, recommended. (He's a fantastic boat manager, by the way, and also can advise knowledgebly on boat selection).

By the way, have you already looked into buying a new boat? I think they may be taking orders now for 2024 (this is pure speculation on my part, but at the 2019 boat show, some of the cat dealers said they were taking orders then for 2021/22...)

Fair winds, DC9,
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Old 22-09-2021, 03:27   #3
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Re: New Boat vs Used Boat?

Itís a ď callĒ. Most deck gear , engines , masts etc will be from the same suite of manufactures anyway. Tired gear is tired gear
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Old 22-09-2021, 05:14   #4
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Re: New Boat vs Used Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc9loser View Post
Which is better. To buy a solid well-surveyed used boat or a brand new boat with a warranty.

Lets say you have a million to spend. You plan to sail halfway around the world. You are looking at acquiring a sailing Catamaran to do it in.

Is it better to buy new or used given that you might have several hundred thousand in the kitty for repairs by saving on the used boat vs prepaid repairs via a warranty?

You'd have to survey and fix a new boat, too, although ideally not spending as much fix-it money.

In you scenario, though, my preference would be to buy a $500-700K boat, and begin upgrading with replacements of my own choosing. Doing as much of the work myself as possible, partly as a learning exercise.*

(*So I could maybe fix it again somewhere in Timbuktu if necessary. Needs a boatload of spares, too...)

Can't say whether my approach is better, though.

-Chris
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Old 22-09-2021, 05:25   #5
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Re: New Boat vs Used Boat?

Slightly used and thoroughly examined and tested will save you time and money.

New boats have a LOT of kinks to work out, gremlins and various add ins to buy to get them working the way you’d like. Commissioning a boat is no joke.

Slightly used means someone else did a fair amount of that work already.
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Old 22-09-2021, 06:16   #6
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Re: New Boat vs Used Boat?

We need people to buy new boats
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Old 22-09-2021, 06:21   #7
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Re: New Boat vs Used Boat?

You also have to find that used boat. The market is hot. I looked for over a year, and I didn't find anything that "checked" many of the boxes I was seeking. I increased my budget and bought new.
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Old 22-09-2021, 06:30   #8
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Re: New Boat vs Used Boat?

Buying a new boat is not a guarantee of not having problems. BUT at least you have a manufacturer that 'should' make things right.

Whereas buying used, is largely based on how good the surveyor is. Even then, (s)he may not find hidden issues. If/when those hidden issues arise, you have nowhere to turn.
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Old 22-09-2021, 07:24   #9
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Re: New Boat vs Used Boat?

What Russ and Keith claim in this video is spot-on. I'm going through this right now with Lagoon (and for the past 2+ months). The negativity I have for the policies and behaviors of Lagoon's representatives grows with each day I'm given the run-around or have to wait to get service. I am APPALLED how Lagoon and its dealers act when it comes to warranty. From what I understand from some of the dealers, quite a bit of this is because Lagoon (and I assume the rest of the major manufacturers) does everything they can to avoid paying for troubleshooting or claims and, when they do, their reimbursement rate is so minimal that it doesn't really make sense for a dealer to spend their limited service people (who are so backed-up with more profitable paying customers) fixing warranty problems for a reduced rate. (I'm also told it takes forever for dealers to get reimbursement from Lagoon). I had one Lagoon dealer outright discourage me from coming to them because they didn't want to get involved in warranty work. Additionally, Lagoon's policy is that you can't find your own local mechanic to make the fixes (as the dealers might not be able to schedule you for months) and then get properly reimbursed. So the onus is on you to get the boat to the closest dealer (which might be very far away or in a very expensive area). Finally, all the costs for the time you're waiting at a marina or getting the work done is on you - Lagoon will not reimburse for dock fees even if it's a perfectly valid warranty issue.

I was advised by one Lagoon dealer: "just bite the bullet, get local people to fix the problems, and then submit your claims to Lagoon; if you get 20% back, consider yourself lucky." Wow - just wow.

Related, I spent a few months at a Cape Town marina where new Leopards were being commissioned. From what I understand, the commissioning process takes so long and each boat often has major work done on those docks because they are so poorly manufactured at the factory. I've been told both by workers on those boats and delivery skippers that it's a ****-show. I was also told a story about one new Leopard with major structural problems identified by the delivery skipper. It took many thousands and months of screwing around (engineering reports, lawyers, etc.) to finally get Leopard to build a new boat for the owner. It was only after the owner threatened to change the name of the boat (to reflect the structural problem) and advertise the problems in newspapers that Leopard finally relented. Appalling...

When you buy a boat with a warranty for such a significant amount of money, it is reasonable to expect the manufacturer will act with integrity. From my experience, Lagoon does not. I do not accept "well, that's the way it works in the industry." It is beyond a slap-in-the-face to new owners and shameful behavior. I would bet the only way to change this behavior is to stop buying new boats/boats with warranties. They haven't any reason to change if there aren't negative consequences for their behavior.

As an aside, and as the manufacturer warranties are basically useless only causing new owners grief, I see a great opportunity for insurance companies to enter the business of providing extended warranties that are actually meaningful and useful.
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Old 22-09-2021, 08:43   #10
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Re: New Boat vs Used Boat?

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Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Slightly used and thoroughly examined and tested will save you time and money. New boats have a LOT of kinks to work out, gremlins and various add ins to buy to get them working the way you’d like. Commissioning a boat is no joke.
Slightly used means someone else did a fair amount of that work already.
This.

Even if money wasn't an issue, new boats are not like a new car you can simply drive off the lot, they require commissioning and outfitting with the electronics and gear you need for your use and preferences which requires a lot of time as well as money.

And new boats often have construction glitches and glitches with various parts/systems requiring warranty work.

I prefer a used boat that has had the kinks worked out and proven itself through rigorous use and still expect to spend bucket loads of money to outfit it for my use and preferences.
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Old 22-09-2021, 09:14   #11
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Re: New Boat vs Used Boat?

Get a late model boat where the owner installed all the bells and whistles and avoid the depreciation and the hassle of commissioning. Easy call.
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Old 22-09-2021, 09:32   #12
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Re: New Boat vs Used Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc9loser View Post
Which is better. To buy a solid well-surveyed used boat or a brand new boat with a warranty.

Lets say you have a million to spend. You plan to sail halfway around the world. You are looking at acquiring a sailing Catamaran to do it in.

Is it better to buy new or used given that you might have several hundred thousand in the kitty for repairs by saving on the used boat vs prepaid repairs via a warranty?

My limited experience with generator and outboard manufacturers is that the warranty is worthless?

What do you all think?

The attached video is overly long but covers a new boat buyer struggling with getting his warrantees covered.

https://youtu.be/EAEaeM4uH2g
Boats are not like cars. With a new car you just drive to the dealer and they fix whatever needs attention. Not so with boats that are being prepared for an offshore voyage. In most cases you will have to deal with that individual part/system manufacturer and/or the installer to remedy the issue with either you or someone you hire to actually fix it...and on a boat there are many. The only similarity between cars and boats is the high depreciation rate you will suffer with the new boat as soon as you leave the dock.

If you can find an acceptable boat a couple of years old that was being prepared for a similar voyage where the owner has changed plans for one reason or another would be ideal. But still get a good surveyor.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH
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Old 22-09-2021, 09:54   #13
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Re: New Boat vs Used Boat?

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Originally Posted by SV__Grace View Post
This.

Even if money wasn't an issue, new boats are not like a new car you can simply drive off the lot, they require commissioning and outfitting with the electronics and gear you need for your use and preferences which requires a lot of time as well as money.

And new boats often have construction glitches and glitches with various parts/systems requiring warranty work.

I prefer a used boat that has had the kinks worked out and proven itself through rigorous use and still expect to spend bucket loads of money to outfit it for my use and preferences.
I'm a repeating monkey, but this all DEPENDS on the manufacturer, the dealer, and your requirements. And whether you bought the boat in the 1980s or 2021 (since that sector has been constantly industrialized as well, taking steps in the direction of the automobile industry).
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Old 22-09-2021, 10:53   #14
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Re: New Boat vs Used Boat?

I would purchase a used boat that was being sold by a meticulous cruiser after their journey.

They will typically answer any question about the boat after the sale. The boat is already set up for cruising and most of the problems are worked out.

In my opinion, there is nothing better for a boat or airplane than someone that uses it alot and takes care of it.
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Old 22-09-2021, 11:17   #15
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Re: New Boat vs Used Boat?

We are now 2 years out of the original 2 year warranty on our 2017 Xquisite X5. This was our first boat and I must say feeling very lucky to have stumbled on to this company in 2016 at the Annapolis boat show (my wife actually found them). Tamas is basically the exclusive dealer for the Phoenix catamaran builder in South Africa. Only one number to call for issues anywhere in the world and they were always very responsive in assisting to get support from OEM's where applicable or reimburse me if it was something else.

There was several weeks of warranty done in Miami after sailing from BVI's (cargo ship from Capetown to BVI) to Miami. Stayed pretty close to east coast USA and Bahamas for the first full year and a half before feeling comfortable to go further afield. Think I would do the same with any new boat.

There have been some design issues that came up last year when we were fully out of warranty that the factory felt were fit for purpose and denied. Tamas with Xquisite stepped up and reimbursed the majority of my expense after getting it all sorted. He is building a brand. Not just there to sell a boat and cash your check.

I watched the entire video that was attached as we had some inital issues with the same Yanmar engines. Turned out to be loose electrical connection on the batteries...sigh.
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