Lagoon Litigation Site?

[cll2]

Just curious if anyone knows why the lagoonlitigation.com site shut down?

[cll2]

Looks like it's back now. I was just curious if there'd been any recent updates. Nothing since last fall.


Chuck

[RKsailsolo]

Can anyone tell us why such a site exists. Suggests the biggest cat builder in the world has serious problems that impact new and used boats.


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[BandB]

Originally Posted by RKsailsolo

Can anyone tell us why such a site exists. Suggests the biggest cat builder in the world has serious problems that impact new and used boats.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

No, it only suggests one person had a complaint. Obviously, he's not the only person to ever have a problem with a Lagoon. But you'd expect some issues over the years based on their volume. Then you have to look at what the problems have been, have they been resolved, and how you feel the builder has handled it.

In the complaint relating to that site, it's a not uncommon type issue. Boat is in accident, then insurer or owner claims some part of damage is related to build, not the accident. In this case, it was the owner. Basically he had a deductible on his insurance policy that he wanted Lagoon to reimburse. Initially he also sought loss of value I believe. Clearly his actions were the cause of the accident. The insurer apparently paid all but the deductible. He felt Lagoon was responsible for the extent of the damage because the compartment wasn't watertight. Lagoon says they aren't required to build watertight bulkheads. Another point is that even had it been his damage would have exceeded his deductible, so he still would have been out the same amount of money.

Note a couple of things. The insurer made no attempt to place blame on the builder.

Second, the owner tried to sell the boat before ever taking it. The boat lost value prior to him taking it and he paid 587 euros and was unable to sell for 500 euros, which the owner blames on the economy. Then he insured it for 587 with an 88 euro excess (I think equivalent to a US deductible). He wanted Lagoon to cover the loss of value of the boat although it lost value prior to the accident. Note also he was upset that personal effects weren't covered, but that was his policy, his coverage. He then found cracks in the bulkheads and Simpson marine told him that Lagoon considered those to be a result of the accident.

He tried to sue in French courts before he found out his agreement with Simpson Marina (apparently he didn't read the back of the contract) stated that he must go to arbitration. He filed arbitration beyond the one year time frame required by the contract. He lost and was ordered to pay for the costs of arbitration plus Simpson's legal fees. He then failed to pay as ordered and subsequently Simpson has obtained an injunction to keep it from leaving Singapore and with intent of auctioning it to recover their legal fees. I don't know if that auction has taken place.

Here are the known facts:

Owner didn't want the boat, even prior to accident, and tried to sell it. Obviously still doesn't want it.

Accident was owner's fault.

Insurer paid as per policy.

Owner claimed damage was higher as result of build problems with bulkhead. Simpson marine denied that.

Owner failed apparently to read contract and know his rights, sued in French court, withdrew suit, lost in arbitration.

What isn't known from the information available:

Does Lagoon have a bulkhead problem? You'd have to read other's experiences.

Did Lagoon handle this correctly? All I see is him dealing with Simpson.

Did Simpson handle this correctly or just take advantage of his failure to know the contract he entered with them?

Lessons to be learned

Boats lose value the day they're purchased and may lose more rapidly depending on times.

Insurance has deductibles. Be sure you're comfortable with yours.

Read all contracts. Have your attorney do the same. Pay lawyer fees upfront to avoid problems rather than in litigation.

Know who you're dealing with. The builder and the seller.

Know your warranty, exactly what it covers, and what you must do to get coverage.

Get a survey even on a new boat. If there's a bulkhead issue, that is the time. You're not going to be successful claiming builder's problem after an accident you cause. We have purchased new boats and have had them surveyed during build and before taking delivery.

Boats are expensive. Owning them is expensive, especially new boats. Don't buy a $700,000 boat if you can't afford it losing $200,000 value after your first day of operation. Now if you're going to be using it, it's value doesn't really matter. But if you're thinking resell, it does. It may lose as much as 1/3 of it's market value the day you put it into use. He seems somehow shocked that Simpson paid 17% less than list for the boat and had significant profit on the sale even after giving him a 6% discount.

I do feel for the purchaser. He has lost a lot of money at best and I don't know what the final resolution has been. There's no way he's ever going to be made whole or feel he was. It's tragic and painful. However, ultimately, he is at fault for much of his loss. He didn't know the contract he entered, he didn't get the boat surveyed, he seemed naive over the fact it could lose so much value in a recession. He entered into an insurance policy that he couldn't afford the deductible. He didn't get the boat surveyed prior to taking delivery. He didn't get good legal representation from the start, including reviewing of his purchase agreement. He didn't get assistance from someone experienced in purchasing such boats. A boat purchase can be a very expensive lesson learned.

As to his website, perhaps he feels telling his story brings him some degree of satisfaction or that he can help others to avoid his mistakes.

[Pelagic]

Great executive summary Bandb... I can think of nothing to add.

[D&D]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

Great executive summary Bandb... I can think of nothing to add.

[RKsailsolo]

Thanks BandB. We all benefit from your response here.


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[BandB]

You're all welcome. Just an attempt to maintain perspective.

[captMat]

Hi there - Long time ago but I wanted to update you on some additional facts on the Lagoon Litigation story. I know the owner and the story quite well, and the Lagoon management story is very different to what actually happened.

The owner accepts that the skipper he hired when the boat arrived in Langkawi brand new, was at fault. He did back over the painter and it was dyneema and attached to the inner cleat on the stbd hull which did not break, but the saildrive did.

The engine room flooded and the bilges couldn't handle it as the water flooded the entire hull.

The delivery skipper did panic and beach the boat but I don't remember any story about leaving hatches open.

The issue that went to court was that in the brochure it specifically says watertight bulkheads fitted and they were not watertight. Obviously.
Cabling was fitted at the factory and not certified by lloyds properly and allowed the water ingress.

The owner felt it was fair to have Lagoon pay for part of the repairs or the collision damage waiver

The owner ended up paying 200k in legal fees and lost. Lagoon paid 800k in legal fees and won.

The boat was seized and the debt settled
Lagoon then sent the new amended PDF to the owner with the pages stating the watertight bulkheads redacted

I apply this follow up because I note Lagoon management still posting lies about the outcome.

The owner never left Singapore and is still there.
Lagoons are not well made boats IMO and I would never buy one unless it was permanently docked in a marina. (I used to own a 45 ft S.A built cat)

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Mat.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by captMat

Hi there - Long time ago but I wanted to update you on some additional facts on the Lagoon Litigation story. I know the owner and the story quite well, and the Lagoon management story is very different to what actually happened.

The owner accepts that the skipper he hired when the boat arrived in Langkawi brand new, was at fault. He did back over the painter and it was dyneema and attached to the inner cleat on the stbd hull which did not break, but the saildrive did.

The engine room flooded and the bilges couldn't handle it as the water flooded the entire hull.

The delivery skipper did panic and beach the boat but I don't remember any story about leaving hatches open.

The issue that went to court was that in the brochure it specifically says watertight bulkheads fitted and they were not watertight. Obviously.
Cabling was fitted at the factory and not certified by lloyds properly and allowed the water ingress.

The owner felt it was fair to have Lagoon pay for part of the repairs or the collision damage waiver

The owner ended up paying 200k in legal fees and lost. Lagoon paid 800k in legal fees and won.

The boat was seized and the debt settled
Lagoon then sent the new amended PDF to the owner with the pages stating the watertight bulkheads redacted

I apply this follow up because I note Lagoon management still posting lies about the outcome.

The owner never left Singapore and is still there.
Lagoons are not well made boats IMO and I would never buy one unless it was permanently docked in a marina. (I used to own a 45 ft S.A built cat)

The outcome was that the owner lost the case. How is Lagoon "lying about the outcome", the outcome is cut and dry? Obviously the owner was wrong, they lost. Years ago.

Give it a rest, you screwed up, you failed to take responsibility, you lost, it's over.