GUNBOAT Dismasting

[SailingMum]

Originally Posted by Sailingcouple13

We spent close to two hours on the 55 on Thursday with Peter and the current owners. They did not shy away at all on the speculations of what happened or why the owners made the call to abandon the boat. As a prospective buyer of a 55 I am satisfied with the answers so far. As well as understanding that telling this forum what our thoughts are, would not be productive. Take the time visit the factory in North Carolina or make an appointment to board at one of the shows and find that no one is hiding. The market place this type of boat is very narrow and if you are in it the availability for all your answers are there, and extremely available.

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I would find it productive to hear your thoughts.

I'd also find it productive to hear what they told you about why the owners abandoned the boat. Why would they tell you and not the market?

Did they tell you under obligation of confidence? Of course they didn't. So set it out please, or I doubt your account.

And no, I won't bother flying to North Carolina or going to a show to inspect, while the company is being secretive. Johnstone has carpet-bombed the internet with incredible claims under the guise of being so open. Now, when it matters, he is a ghost.

And for clarity, I like cats, I don't mind flighty boats, I think it's legitimate to go out in a light, fast boat, and count on weather routing. I just don't think it's cool to market a glasshouse on carbon as invincible and weather-proof and then duck for cover at a time like this. The marketing claims about these boats, compared to their visibly obvious realities, were extreme. Innocent people could get hurt: becase stupid rich people believe this stuff. They could scratch their raybans, spill their Moet or, worse still, have their friends discover that they had three professional crew with them on a boat that should be able to be sailed by a couple without spilling the champers.

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Sailingcouple13

We spent close to two hours on the 55 on Thursday with Peter and the current owners. They did not shy away at all on the speculations of what happened or why the owners made the call to abandon the boat. As a prospective buyer of a 55 I am satisfied with the answers so far. As well as understanding that telling this forum what our thoughts are, would not be productive. Take the time visit the factory in North Carolina or make an appointment to board at one of the shows and find that no one is hiding. The market place this type of boat is very narrow and if you are in it the availability for all your answers are there, and extremely available.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Choked on my cereal when I read this comment the first time. As an experiment I reread it. Yup. Choked again.

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by SailingMum

I would find it productive to hear your thoughts.

I'd also find it productive to hear what they told you about why the owners abandoned the boat. Why would they tell you and not the market?

Did they tell you under obligation of confidence? Of course they didn't. So set it out please, or I doubt your account.

And no, I won't bother flying to North Carolina or going to a show to inspect, while the company is being secretive. Johnstone has carpet-bombed the internet with incredible claims under the guise of being so open. Now, when it matters, he is a ghost.

And for clarity, I like cats, I don't mind flighty boats, I think it's legitimate to go out in a light, fast boat, and count on weather routing. I just don't think it's cool to market a glasshouse on carbon as invincible and weather-proof and then duck for cover at a time like this. The marketing claims about these boats, compared to their visibly obvious realities, were extreme. Innocent people could get hurt: becase stupid rich people believe this stuff. They could scratch their raybans, spill their Moet or, worse still, have their friends discover that they had three professional crew with them on a boat that should be able to be sailed by a couple without spilling the champers.

Looks like we'll have to wait for the 'official' report being written by Clean over on SAILING ANARCHY...

However, I'd be surprised if it will be made available before the close of the Miami Show on Monday evening... Takes a long time to edit those pieces that get put up on SA's front page, after all ...

;-))

[svlamorocha]

Originally Posted by Sailingcouple13

The market place this type of boat is very narrow and if you are in it the availability for all your answers are there, and extremely available.

I know that most if not all the few people who have the millions to buy this sort of boat (low volume; high price) are very smart and worked very hard but most did not make their money sailing and did not sail tens of thousands of miles.

Therefore it is obviously convenient for the manufacturer to give the "secret" answers only to people in the "narrow" segment, who are less likely to challenge those answers than technical people who actually work on boats and have sailed tens of thousands of miles, know how to tell wheat from chaff and are not emotionally committed.

Add to this hired crew that (regardless of what the contract says) owe their next job to the manufacturer a boat owner that stands to lose if the "answer" does not make the boat look good. All incentives are aligned!

Your money, your boat to enjoy, but "buyer beware" as the Romans say.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by Sailingcouple13

We spent close to two hours on the 55 on Thursday with Peter and the current owners. They did not shy away at all on the speculations of what happened or why the owners made the call to abandon the boat. As a prospective buyer of a 55 I am satisfied with the answers so far. As well as understanding that telling this forum what our thoughts are, would not be productive. Take the time visit the factory in North Carolina or make an appointment to board at one of the shows and find that no one is hiding. The market place this type of boat is very narrow and if you are in it the availability for all your answers are there, and extremely available.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

This has restored my faith in the naiveté of people. Salesman take heart. As the great Barnham said, there is one born every minute.

Ok thanks for letting us know that the owner and his salespeople have been able to settle your mind. How long have you been sailing cats for can I ask? What boat engineering experience do you have that would lead you to be able to both ask the right questions and see through what you were being feed as to its veracity? I'm sorry a boating couple with a checkbook being given a slick sales presentation, and I am sure it was such a beautiful soft sell with charm and laid back conversation, who have not disclosed their own expertise or the questions they asked and the answers given leaves me to say please stop insulting our collective intelligence. As one poster has said peoples lives are potentially at stake. The builder has an obligation to come clean in a public way. And given his behavior just press releases or slick well rehearsed comments of what happened will not cut it. For me he has already lost my trust. Nothing short a full account of what happened from at least two non boat builder employed witnesses will now satisfy me.

You said the following. "They did not shy away at all on the speculations of what happened or why the owners made the call to abandon the boat. As a prospective buyer of a 55 I am satisfied with the answers so far." So can you please tell us what they told you about the "speculation" of what happened. I am sure they know more than just speculation but have first hand reports direct from the passengers and the boat owner. So what did he tell you about the facts? What did he tell you about why they abandoned the unsinkable boat (boat builders words not mine)? Can you tell us all.

Thanks.

[44'cruisingcat]

What makes you think the crew of this boat, and the builders know why the mast failed? (And are keeping it secret.)


Probably the first they'd have known was when it came down. Do you all think they went out and did a forensic analysis of the rig in 70 knots of wind?


And now it's a big conspiracy, so Gunboat can keep selling boats who's rigs will keep failing to suckers? And of course those suckers will just keep buying them with rigs falling down every day, because obviously anyone who can afford a Gunboat must be stupid and not a real sailor. (As opposed to the mighty keyboard warriors on this forum.)


This forum gets more and more pathetic every day.

[SailingMum]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

What makes you think the crew of this boat, and the builders know why the mast failed? (And are keeping it secret.)


Probably the first they'd have known was when it came down. Do you all think they went out and did a forensic analysis of the rig in 70 knots of wind?


And now it's a big conspiracy, so Gunboat can keep selling boats who's rigs will keep failing to suckers? And of course those suckers will just keep buying them with rigs falling down every day, because obviously anyone who can afford a Gunboat must be stupid and not a real sailor. (As opposed to the mighty keyboard warriors on this forum.)


This forum gets more and more pathetic every day.

Calm down.

Not sure about others, but the rig coming down is probably not the biggest issue. Sure, there may be questions about sufficient mast support when deeply reefed, and that is an interesting question that can be asked of a fair few multihulls with similar staying arrangements.

But a mast can come down on just about any boat and I agree the crew/designers might not have caused it, and if it's underwater, we may never know what fittting first went. Of course, the veil of silence means that we don't know what they don't know about the rig. But...

But if they don't know what caused the rig, they could say so. In the meantime, there are other issues which can be commented on more immediately, and that they must know about. Some broad questions for GB/the crew/Irens for starters:

- what were the structural and ingress issues the hull was facing? (crew and GB know this, and abandoned ship because of them)
- did those issues flow from design decisions (eg the very exposed and seemingly fragile structure, low-ish clearance, open transoms, exposed engine access, rig dependent longeron etc)
- how much did GB's OTT marketing about the bullet-proof nature of the design contribute to the approach the owner/crew took to weather and routing?
- why, for the period before the failure, was a 300+nm/day spaceship with three pro crew matching the typical speed of a plywood gaff rigged wharram sailed by a bearded old hippie in his underpants?
- why do they seem to use professional crew so often given they are specifically advertised not to need them?
- why the veil of silence? (Not just GB, but all crew, and the designer. Why?)

These are some starter questions. I think most posters think they're good questions. They're not wankers for raising them. And I think most posters think it smells bad for a company that so slickly and widely marketed the boats, using so much forum presence, to go silent.

(oh, and yeah, I could probably afford one, have a few miles, and suspect I wouldn't need the pro crew. But the 55 looks to me one big wave away from being an open-deck cat and I can get a really fast one of those for less than a tenth of the cost.)

[44'cruisingcat]

What would be the point of them answering your questions? You lot have already decided any answers forthcoming will be lies anyway.

[JPA Cate]

Hi, SailingMum,

I like your posts!

Personally, I think Lets get sailing 13 wants us to beg him for what he was told, sort of like when Mark Antony shows the crowd Caesar's will, "which, by the way, I do not mean to read". If this were the case, one could choose not to play that game.

Ann

[916senna]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

What would be the point of them answering your questions? You lot have already decided any answers forthcoming will be lies anyway.

That's exactly why they are saying as little as possible. Doesn't matter what they say it will be shredded by the conspiracy theorists and only serve to prolong the conjecture.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

What makes you think the crew of this boat, and the builders know why the mast failed? (And are keeping it secret.)

During the process of cutting the rig free, seems likely someone might have come across something that could have given them a hint, or at least ruled out certain failures, no?

But, you're probably right, and no one really knows why the decision by a pro skipper and crew to abandon an "unsinkable" boat that had not been holed was taken... Like the rig coming down, it was likely inexplicable, another one of those things that 'just happened', and can never be explained or understood, right?

;-)

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by 916senna

That's exactly why they are saying as little as possible. Doesn't matter what they say it will be shredded by the conspiracy theorists and only serve to prolong the conjecture.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Oh, right you are! So, the best policy for them is to continue to advertise the 55 as bullet proof, incredibly fast, completely safe due to all the automated safety gear and better than Vegemite on toast in all ways. Critical questions will only be answered if you travel thousands of miles to visit their displays at boat shows, and then only if you are well enough dressed and genuflect regularly.

Sounds good to me...

Seriously, they are in a bad spot and are probably scurrying to find a way to come out of it without too much loss of status. I have no idea which way they will leap. I think we all would hope for some honesty and transparency, but I won't hold my breath. (Wankers are not good at holding their breath).

Jim

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg

But, you're probably right, and no one really knows why the decision by a pro skipper and crew to abandon an "unsinkable" boat that had not been holed was taken...

You can bet there were serious discussions between the skipper and owner on board. If the owner wants to abandon then that's what you do.

[Delancey]

New GB 55 - $2.5M
EPIRB - $500
USCG helicopter ride - Priceless (as in doesn't cost a dime)

[Mirage Gecko]

You know these GB people have no obligation to say anything at all about the problems this specific boat had and why think they give a hoot to what people on forums think about their product.
In the auto market there are many instances of respected manufactures fitting faulty parts to there vehicles and never making a public statements.Some of these faulty bits have been discovered the hard way too ie fatal accidents.
The Lexus brand is pretty much thought of as a luxury and reliable vehicle but at one point it topped the charts as the brand most global breakdown and recovery facilities needed to attend to.