Catamarans with direct drive

[cardude]

Currently have a monohull motorsailer, but want to transition to a catamaran for more room. I’m really stuck on direct drive instead of saildrives. The only boats I’ve been able to find with that setup so far are Leopards 47s.

Are the Leopards all balsa cored? Only ones I see for sale are older in the 2003 range. My current boat is a 2008, and while I realize the year model doesn’t mean all that much on a boat I don’t really want to go to an older designed boat.

My other desires are AC, generator, water maker, lower helm (although wife really wants a flybridge) and a owner’s setup with 3 cabins.
Want something that will sail well enough that if I get caught out in big seas I don’t have to worry about being scared surfing down waves.

Any suggestions?

[admiralslater]

PDQ Antares

[cardude]

Ok. Thanks. Will check them out.

Edit: Yikes! They are expensive! Are they a much better boat? Sorry, I’m not very well informed.

The Leopard 47s I saw were in the $350k range, for a 2003 vintage.

[mark_morwood]

Originally Posted by cardude

Any suggestions?

Worry about other things more than sail-drive v shaft drive. I think it would be a pity to let that one aspect so dramatically narrow your options. There are pros and cons both ways (saildrive v shaft) and I think most of the experienced catamaran owners here would recommend choosing the boat based on other more important characteristics - performance, interior layout, price, boat condition, ... etc

[rabbi]

Lagoon sold a few 410 with direct drive. Smaller and most likely older than what you are looking for.

However there is ton of other things I would fred about instead of the saildrive thing.
As long the engine compartment is watertight a saildrive is not something that keeps me awake at night (and I am one of the selected few who experienced a saildrive leak after a collision).

[Bean Counter]

I guess you must have had a personal bad experience with a sail drive, to make this a factor that rules out 80% of the cats for sale. Most cats have two of them so if it is a safety factor, they rarely play up at exactly the same time, and cats perform quite well on just one engine. It is a sailing vessel after all, the auxiliary power is just that. If your wife wants a fly bridge, get one, happy wife = happy life, Lagoon 440, not much else in your price range.

[cardude]

Possibly correct on my aversion to the saildrives. I’m trying to keep things simple and wanted a system that I already understand with direct drive. Plus the keel protected prop on the Leopard 47 is appealing as well as the ability to motor faster (from what I understand).

If I give on the saildrives, is there a cat with better engine access than others? I would really like enough room to crawl all the way around the engine to make it easier to service it.

[akprb]

Originally Posted by cardude

Possibly correct on my aversion to the saildrives. I’m trying to keep things simple and wanted a system that I already understand with direct drive. Plus the keel protected prop on the Leopard 47 is appealing as well as the ability to motor faster (from what I understand).

If I give on the saildrives, is there a cat with better engine access than others? I would really like enough room to crawl all the way around the engine to make it easier to service it.

The 47 Catana engine room. Pure bliss (well as pure as you’ll get on a cat :-)

[guyrj33]

"Want something that will sail well enough that if I get caught out in big seas I don’t have to worry about being scared surfing down waves. "

Don't worry no matter the size you get, if you're surfing down waves it will be scary. But also exhilarating.

[Tornadosailing]

If you want a bigger engine room, you just have to buy a bigger boat.

A volvo 40 diesel and a 75 aren't that far apart in physical size. But there's a big difference in engine rooms in a Fountaine Pajot Lucia 40 with a Volvo 40hp and a Ipanema 58 with a 75hp.

[contrail]

The older Leopard 45, 38, 42 and 43 all have straight shafts. They are known in the industry as being extremely rugged, more so than the later Leopards not to mention other later cats.

The reason there are so few straight drives is that it's harder to design around an engine sufficiently forward to use one. Usually, the cost comes in much higher bunks. The engineers will favour straight shafts, for good reason. The salespeople and many customers prefer lower bunks that are easier to climb into, so guess which group prevails. The designers listen to the sales folks, and it's easier to design for a saildrive and an engine at the very aft end of a boat.

All the Leopards have balsa cored hulls, as well as quite a few other cats, including lagoons. I have had people contradict this, but as I look at Irma wrecks, it's quite easy to see what is inside of what.

That said, balsa is a good core material, as long as you do't perforate it and then poorly seal it. It isn't hard to take care of it properly, and it's very strong. Balsa resists crushing. Look at a foam cored boat graze the corner of a dock, or otherwise take an impact, and you will see the result: a dent, because foam is easy to crush. I just watched one such dent be created a few days ago!. You won't see much of that on a balsa cored boat. Take care of it and you will be OK. In fact, among better built boats, which includes the Leopard line, I would bet you would find more boats that have had significant saildrive problems than balsa core problems. It's just that you know you will have maintenance problems on a sail drive, so you expect it, whereas you hope not to have balsa problems, so they seem worse. But there are plenty of unanticipated sail drive problems, too. Engine room water tight? Some more so and some less. There are lots of wires and piping that penetrate that water tight bulkhead. But, even if they are watertight, what's the cost and hassle of a flooded engine room, when you factor in the electricals, the engine, maybe a generator, etc, etc.

For me, personally, a sail drive would take a boat out of contention. For others, a balsa core would.

Cheers,
Tim

[onavegador]

Interesting question. But as written above from several members it will be difficult to find a cat with shaft drive. May a very expesive one, as the Outremer 51 of which I know that one onwner ordered she with shaft drives.

Otherwise my experience with Saildrives over nearly 15 years and about 130000 k SMs was, in my opinion, much better as I heard and read before. Even when passaging the Red Sea towards the Med I do not needed a spare saildrive in stock as suggested in the Red Sea Guide. Over all the time I had to change the shaft seals four times with machining the shafts and shrunk a machined tube over, what I could always arrange with planned storage (for winter or hurrican or cyclone season) and if I had water in the saildrive lube during the sailing season I dryed with the catamaran out* and changed the oil on a sandbank w/o hurting the nature. That is possible if you do the work well prepared.

*Drying out with a keeled catamaran is easy, that is the reason why I prefer the keeled ones instead the catamarans with centreboards.

Fair winds
James

[AZUS]

Depends what you are looking to do. We took our Antares 10,000 miles last year, including across the Atlantic, so the reliability of shaft drive was a key (we love our boat as a 2-person voyaging boat).

A sisterboat was on the World ARC two years ago, which lost 2 cats from the rally in the Pacific due to sail-drive problems, the shaft drives were fine.

Short answer? If you are Carribean cruising or staying in well-developed places, shaft drives would not eliminate a boat for me, because I can always get it serviced quickly. If you are doing significant blue water sailing or real voyaging, I personally am also stuck on shaft drives.

[cardude]

Just cruising FL, Bahamas then the Caribbean.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by onavegador

Interesting question. But as written above from several members it will be difficult to find a cat with shaft drive. May a very expesive one, as the Outremer 51 of which I know that one onwner ordered she with shaft drives.

Otherwise my experience with Saildrives over nearly 15 years and about 130000 k SMs was, in my opinion, much better as I heard and read before. Even when passaging the Red Sea towards the Med I do not needed a spare saildrive in stock as suggested in the Red Sea Guide. Over all the time I had to change the shaft seals four times with machining the shafts and shrunk a machined tube over, what I could always arrange with planned storage (for winter or hurrican or cyclone season) and if I had water in the saildrive lube during the sailing season I dryed with the catamaran out* and changed the oil on a sandbank w/o hurting the nature. That is possible if you do the work well prepared.

*Drying out with a keeled catamaran is easy, that is the reason why I prefer the keeled ones instead the catamarans with centreboards.

Fair winds
James

Perhaps not so easy for those who keep their boats in the water, year around, rather than storing them for an "off" season, and maybe don't haul every year, either.