Broker is privately "flipping the good deals"?

[DShant]

Chotu and others have it right the broker was being flippant!!

This happens all the time. Either you are right or the seller/broker are right about the value. If you are they will find out although it may take a while.

I see you got your new boat for about this price. Congratulations! One of the best days!!

[Be Free Sailor]

Yes, I found the right boat, at the right price, as I always do. This will be my 6th (!) Lagoon cat

[Sailing Hanse37]

We sold our previous boat through a good and competent broker. A potential buyer managed to get my phone number and gave me a direct low ball offer. When i said that: 1. I was not interested 2. He had to negotiate with the broker, he started being crude, telling me I is was a stupid idiot and so on. So i calmly replied that i would not sell our boat to him even if he was offering the asking price. At the end of the story he bought the boat, i had refused any further talks with him and he paid 5% above asking price. He wanted to have some information afterwards on some details of the boat and i just did not respond, i hated the guy. This is what you can get with a low ball offer and trying to be the smartest one. The boat was a 6 year old Hanse 37, in pristine condition with new triradial sails, new canvas, new matrasses, … and new means new: never used. He tried to compare my price with a Hanse 34ft, which was older and in very bad shape. In hindsight i should not even have sold our boat to him at no matter which price but the broker calmed everything down.

[Knothardly]

I had a broker call and explain the need to be reasonable with my offer. I too had “lowballed” a bit. She explained that given the age and history of this boat a good relationship after sale would be invaluable. I adjusted a bit and in short we closed on the boat many years back. I have had to contact the PO many time and his aid has save me tons in time and $$$$. Once even getting me moving again after a Slip up in startup procedures. I’ve probably saved 30k in time and money with the brokers advice well worth the extra 10k I adjusted the offer.

[rickwest]

Brokers work for themselves
The higher the price the higher the commission for the broker
They want to sell at the highest price
I know I have met with dozens buying three boats over the years and looking all over the world a few believe sell as many as possible and at the end of the year it all levels off
Brokers often block sales not all but many.
I bought my catamaran off an honest broker in Martinique he took all offers to the seller and he told me ever defect on the boat more then my useless surveyor report found .
Like they will buy the boat and pay marina and yacht fees?????sure
If a boat is real deal the brokers friends will buy and flip
Just my opinion, my 25 year experience

[lifeofreilly57]

Take the hint, the offer is too low.
Just like all professions beeng a boat broker has it's own challenges, mostly tire kickers and dreamers, they waste your time, throw lowball offers and are miffed that they weren't considered serious.
I've bought and sold boats of my own, a well as buying, fixing ad selling auction boats. I don't do individual showings due to the amount of tire kickers who've wasted my valuable time.
If a boat has been sitting on the market for a long time then a lowball offer may work, but most desirable boats in a good market don't come under that kind of situation. Multi hulls are hot right now, a good, fairly new, well maintained and outfitted one will not be hard to sell.
I don't blame the broker for being a bit up front with your offer, he's basically saying "get real".
I only do showings on a fixed day, advertise it that way and don't so individual showings unless the potential buyer is motivated and realistic. Yeah, I've had guys show up 3 years after meeting them the first time when selling a boat, they still never bought one and still try to lowball me. I'm not a broker, but I can honestly understand their frustration with tire kickers. My lack of patience with tire kickers is short, I have no problem telling them to take a hike, my time is valuable too.
Do the research, come up with a realistic offer, if you can't actually afford that boat, find a model you can afford.
I've always offered mine at a realistic sale price, not an inflated wishful price and have advertised them that way. My last boat sale was 5 years ago prior to leaving on our new/used cruising boat for an extended cruise, although the boat I sold was the favorite boat I ever had I was realistic about it's market value, I ended up selling it for $500 less than the asking price, just as a token of goodwill to the new owner since it was going to a good new home as a family racer cruiser.
Yes, brokers will mark up an asking price, but in popular models it won't be 25% higher than the realistic market value, the sooner they sell it the sooner they get paid, which usually means it's priced to sell with minor negotiations pending a survey. If an owner is not realistic about a boats value they may not take it, or won't put a lot of effort into selling it.

[Cpt Mark]

You offer, buy, what the boat is worth as others have said. I've paid roughly 50% of listing price on the 2 boats I've owned. Both obviously needed a lot of work which I can do. Having a good surveyor put things in writing makes a huge difference. I also find out how long it's been listed for and when possible, why they are selling. That info gives you an idea on how likely a lower offer might be accepted. I also use a title company which
looks for liens that may be an issue as well. 1 thing they don't look for, at least the last one didn't, was taxes owed. I asked them this and they said no, we never thought of that. They did and found $5,000 worth of taxes owed.

[Iron E]

Originally Posted by Be Free Sailor

Good points from you all, it is interesting to hear from different parts of the world, US, down under, and of course fellow EU sailors - thank you all for your feedback.

I was interested to get wiser, and to learn from "our community", we have centuries of experience in this forum, which is awesome

Regarding this particular boat, I never got back to the broker, we had our time - I guess that relation was over faster than a "quickie in a cactus".

So I just kept searching the inter-webs, and soon found an identical boat for sale, this one much closer to home waters....and yes, I made a respectful offer.

In my opinion, this boat was priced closer to the "realistic" sales price. The broker was professional, he responded respectfully, and he did his "thing" well - juggling the communications between vendor and myself in a professional manner. Yes, we went a bit back and forth on price, but what do you know....late tonight we agreed the sale! Agreed sales price ended up 5.000 EUR more than my offer on the boat in the original post.

No BS, no waste of time, and the broker made his commission after listing this boat for just 2 days. Vendor is happy, I am happy, broker is happy.

So many boats...so little time...

Looking forward to taking over the boat, and starting the refit. I think we can/will complete the handover next week.

Love this forum, thank you for all the advice!

Congrats!

[Hhew]

LOL “meticulously maintained”…

“Can you show me the maintenance records?”
“Oh I don’t have any records.”
Well that added some risk pad to my offer.

[Iron E]

Originally Posted by Hhew

LOL “meticulously maintained”…

“Can you show me the maintenance records?”
“Oh I don’t have any records.”
Well that added some risk pad to my offer.

My current 46-year-old boat came with 2 eight-inch thick binders full of every record, purchase, upgrade and document since the boat was originally ordered... even the original plans.

We were very fortunate.

[Shrew]

Some interesting replies. One could say that brokers work for themselves, though it is far more accurate to say that they work for the SELLOR, rather than the Buyer.

The idea that the broker is the roadblock to sales is absolutely silly.

Ever notice that all the complaints about brokers are from BUYERS?? You don't see people complaining that the broker sold the boat too high OR too low.

The broker doesn't impede the sale. What they are impeding is YOUR purchase, which is neither the broker nor the sellor's problem.

If a boat doesn't book viewings, it's priced too high for the market.

If the boat books viewings, but doesn't get offers, the condition and price aren't in line with each other.

At the end of the day, the broker doesn't make money returning calls or E-mails. They don't make money showing the boat. They only make money when the boat sells.

The broker would much rather sell 10 boats at 10% below ask, then sell no boats while holding firm on price.

If the broker is not playing ball, it's because the sellor isn't playing ball. Likely because both know that it is a matter of time before the right offer is made. If not, then eventually they will determine its time to lower the asking price.

[Knotical]

Originally Posted by Be Free Sailor

Yes, I found the right boat, at the right price, as I always do. This will be my 6th (!) Lagoon cat

Congrats, glad it worked out on both sides.

Does your above statement suggest you owned 5 Lagoon cats before this? What happened to them?

[Kettlewell]

Ever notice that all the complaints about brokers are from BUYERS?? You don't see people complaining that the broker sold the boat too high OR too low.

The broker doesn't impede the sale. What they are impeding is YOUR purchase, which is neither the broker nor the sellor's problem.

If a boat doesn't book viewings, it's priced too high for the market.

Not if you are selling a lower-priced boat. The average broker will take your listing just in case someone walks into their office and wants that particular boat but they will do next to nothing to sell your boat before others that command higher prices. I've seen it from both the seller's perspective and as a buyer. I've found boats for sale that looked interesting and actually had the broker refuse to show it to me. However, typically what they'll do is tell you all the bad things about the cheaper boat, while insisting on showing you boats at twice the price but not what you are looking for.

[merrydolphin]

I have been in sales long enough to know not to get to emotional about this process. I think the broker here was not flipping the boat, he was making a flippant reply. Not necessary. All he had to say was I will give the seller your offer but think it a bit too low. But thanks for the offer.

[tkalfaoglu]

Doesn't sound like a good broker, I would avoid the boats it sells. Which broker was it anyway? I'd like to avoid them too.