What Makes a Boat "Bluewater" Capable?

[MarkJ]

Salty hog,
You may have done a better job sailing.

If there were two boats side by side and you could switch in between then we might be able to make a case for one or the other.. But no one has done any research... Just pretend numbers plucked from the wind.

On the more important theme of your post is that each boat sails differently and in a storm it is down right desirable to know how to sail the boat one is on! I reef, reef, and reef again. I don't think the wind can rip a mast out if there's no sail up, so its a matter of putting a little sail up so you get somewhere but leave the mast intact.

But in storms people push a boat too hard.
How many times have you heard people say " we hit 14 knots!" Or 9 knots or 11 knots? But our boats CAN'T hit those speeds because they are above hull speed so the boat must be surfing down a wave above hull speed in a storm. That means the boat is unstable, a full keel, or fin doesn't matter, either is ripe for gear breakage, or worse.

The people who broke their mast in your post had too much sail up for their boat in those conditions and it was plucked out, or she ran out of control over hull speed broaching down a wave, "knocked down".

Remember what the earlier posters said... It's about the skipper. If a skipper takes it over hull speed he better know what he is doing.

My hull speed is 7.96 knots. When I hit 8 I reef. No matter what.

You guys just sailed your boat better.


Mark

[Nessus]

Originally Posted by Vasco

What makes a boat bluewater capable? ........... the skipper!!

Sailors put a lot of stock in the "skipper" and rightly so; but this can be self ingratiating. How many 35,000# full keel boats have washed up or been found adrift in perfect condition long after the "skipper" abandoned ship. To say it's all skipper is misleading. It makes it sound like anyone who is good enough can take a 2500# trailer sailer and circumnavigate unmolested by the sea. Not so. There are vessels more adept at cruising offshore.

Would you take a 22' O'day around Cape Horn? To hear it told here; sure if the skipper is good enough. And while that skipper may have a fine passage he or she is pushing their luck.

[Nessus]

Originally Posted by zeehag

who drinks when actively sail cruising???

The entire English Navy

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Remember what the earlier posters said... It's about the skipper. If a skipper takes it over hull speed he better know what he is doing.

My hull speed is 7.96 knots. When I hit 8 I reef. No matter what.

You guys just sailed your boat better.


Mark

Your brave... I do it at 7...

[Lagoon4us]

Messrs Bligh and Flinders certainly bought out the 'Blue water Ability' of what we would all perceive to be doubtful boats.


Cheers

[endoftheroad]

Originally Posted by nes

Well if you could ask Joshua Slocum what makes a boat blue water capable, you would hear about the Spray, the boat that he successfully circumnavigated in (46,000 miles the way that he went). However, if you asked the experts later (after he disappeared), you would find that it was amazing that the boat did not kill him sooner as it would capsize at a fairly low amount of heel. He was the first to make the trip (1895-1898), and did not have a forum to ask advice on what made a blue water capable cruiser. Of course he did not have the modern convenience of electronic navigation equipment or for that matter even a good clock.
What I got from his accomplishment is a repeat statement from another on this forum, what makes a boat blue water capable, is THE SKIPPER.
His book (Joshua Slocum) makes for an interesting read "Sailing Alone Around The World"
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post1120084 Thanks Vasco!


See also Joshua Slocum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well said!

I read the book and the design of the "spray" makes me nervous but I'm not a well experienced Skipper.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Your brave... I do it at 7...

That makes you even braver than Mark! My boat is twie the size of yours and I do it at 7 if there is indication the wind is building.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Nessus

Sailors put a lot of stock in the "skipper" and rightly so; but this can be self ingratiating. How many 35,000# full keel boats have washed up or been found adrift in perfect condition long after the "skipper" abandoned ship. To say it's all skipper is misleading. It makes it sound like anyone who is good enough can take a 2500# trailer sailer and circumnavigate unmolested by the sea. Not so. There are vessels more adept at cruising offshore.

Well that wasn't good skipper then!!!!

The 35,000# full keel boat is the one the purest say is the boat to have regardless of the skipper.

[Saltyhog]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Salty hog,
You may have done a better job sailing.

If there were two boats side by side and you could switch in between then we might be able to make a case for one or the other.. But no one has done any research... Just pretend numbers plucked from the wind.

On the more important theme of your post is that each boat sails differently and in a storm it is down right desirable to know how to sail the boat one is on! I reef, reef, and reef again. I don't think the wind can rip a mast out if there's no sail up, so its a matter of putting a little sail up so you get somewhere but leave the mast intact.

But in storms people push a boat too hard.
How many times have you heard people say " we hit 14 knots!" Or 9 knots or 11 knots? But our boats CAN'T hit those speeds because they are above hull speed so the boat must be surfing down a wave above hull speed in a storm. That means the boat is unstable, a full keel, or fin doesn't matter, either is ripe for gear breakage, or worse.

The people who broke their mast in your post had too much sail up for their boat in those conditions and it was plucked out, or she ran out of control over hull speed broaching down a wave, "knocked down".

Remember what the earlier posters said... It's about the skipper. If a skipper takes it over hull speed he better know what he is doing.

My hull speed is 7.96 knots. When I hit 8 I reef. No matter what.

You guys just sailed your boat better.


Mark

Perhaps. As I said, I can't take credit or blame for that. When things just started building, we had full sail and were moving pretty spritely. I'll say it was exhilarating to say the least. We were heeled pretty far and even I could tell things could go south in a hurry if we didn't reef soon. I'll also say that going forward to the mast to reef in those conditions increased the pucker factor a bit as I had never been sailing in anything like this. But again, as the boat was not violent in her motion, things were manageable. The motion was big, just not too violent. Every time we reefed, the boat stood up and we went faster. We never surfed as we were going upwind (of course). By the end we were under reefed staysail and triple reefed main only. Actually by the very end we were motoring directly into the wind and the outgoing tide from Port Royal Sound. The channel into Port Royal Sound is very long. We got in behind Hilton Head Island just at daybreak. I was happy to be on *that* boat rather than another. Whether it was the capt/crew, the boat, or a combination I can't say for sure. But the combination seemed to work. At this point it's the only recipe I have to start with. It was a great education and I'm still learning! That's what's great about sailing!

[endoftheroad]

If a boat "bends" or "flexes" in heavy weather, as are the reputations or even "nicknames" of some boat makes, shouldn't that boat be considerd not a bluewater boat?

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by endoftheroad

If a boat "bends" or "flexes" in heavy weather, as are the reputations or even "nicknames" of some boat makes, shouldn't that boat be considerd not a bluewater boat?

You've never heard the fable of the reed and the oak? As an aside, even large steel ocean vessels flex. The secret is to flex and not break.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Vasco

You've never heard the fable of the reed and the oak? As an aside, even large steel ocean vessels flex. The secret is to flex and not break.

and also to be able to shut the doors and cupboards........

.....on both tacks. and afterwards.

and ideally all that also after a few years .

[Nessus]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

Well that wasn't good skipper then!!!!

The 35,000# full keel boat is the one the purest say is the boat to have regardless of the skipper.

Like I said many here take it all back to the skipper. There are some things the skipper can't do like add to the ballast to weight ratio

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Nessus

Like I said many here take it all back to the skipper. There are some things the skipper can't do like add to the ballast to weight ratio

But a good skipper starts "skippering" before he sets sail - first look at the boat, then look at the intended passage and then decide whether to set forth. or even whether to get onboard!

A "no" can be the hardest decision to make, even if also the most prudent.

[Nessus]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

But a good skipper starts "skippering" before he sets sail - first look at the boat, then look at the intended passage and then decide whether to set forth. or even whether to get onboard!

A "no" can be the hardest decision to make, even if also the most prudent.

Not everyone is Lord Nelson so they might want to choose a vessel more worthy than another is what I'm saying.