Saildrive or shaft on the long term

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by KetchJohnB

Pretty simple answer. No. I just re-packed my stuffing box for the third time while at anchor...about once a year. Simple, stupidly simple for a full time cruiser.

A half hour job requiring a spanner (wrench) and something to dig out the old and tamp in the new hemp..

[Andrew Lippman]

I had a Volvo saildrive on my Swan 44 for ten years and one engine replacement. Worked fine. Swan, like most Euro boats is different on galvanic isolation: Negative return and ground are kept separate. Some boats even have an alarm for when they touch. I maintained this and had no problems with the aluminum strut. Nor any with the seal. My engine water intake was separate from the strut so I can't comment on its clogging. My boat was rarely at a marina, but I had a transformer.

But I admit, I was petrified of galvanic erosion. That can be a sinker.

The upside is that there are no shaft balance problems. It was very smooth.

The downside is paranoia and almost no prop walk in reverse.

FWIW: A hole in the boat is always a concern. If the isolator on a shaft breaks, it can slide out and foul the rudder. Engine alignment matters a lot for vibration, even a PSS stuffing box can go bad and requires maintenance. Etc. The sail drive can leak at the prop, the main seal can go, and eternal vigilance is required. I would not consider either a deal-breaker. you just have understand that everything breaks on a sailboat all the time, so you have to be ever-vigilant. They are not turnkey items.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Andrew Lippman

I had a Volvo saildrive on my Swan 44 for ten years and one engine replacement. Worked fine. Swan, like most Euro boats is different on galvanic isolation: Negative return and ground are kept separate. Some boats even have an alarm for when they touch. I maintained this and had no problems with the aluminum strut. Nor any with the seal. My engine water intake was separate from the strut so I can't comment on its clogging. My boat was rarely at a marina, but I had a transformer.

But I admit, I was petrified of galvanic erosion. That can be a sinker.

The upside is that there are no shaft balance problems. It was very smooth.

The downside is paranoia and almost no prop walk in reverse.

FWIW: A hole in the boat is always a concern. If the isolator on a shaft breaks, it can slide out and foul the rudder. Engine alignment matters a lot for vibration, even a PSS stuffing box can go bad and requires maintenance. Etc. The sail drive can leak at the prop, the main seal can go, and eternal vigilance is required. I would not consider either a deal-breaker. you just have understand that everything breaks on a sailboat all the time, so you have to be ever-vigilant. They are not turnkey items.

The very rare shaft slide can be eliminated by fitting a circlip to the shaft a few inches up from the stuffing box/seal.. easy peasy.

[Andrew Lippman]

Indeed. Good observation. I think my larger point is that sailors always have to think ahead, as you did, and expect failures. No way around that except life in a Barcalounger.

[Norsailor]

I have had a Volvo sail drive in a 34 ft Scandinavian built boat for more than 40 years.
I have replaced it twice. When properly installed membranes do not leak. They are of very thick and tough rubber. They also absorb vibrations easily and the chances of hitting something with the drive is remote because it sits between the keel and the rudder. As for corrosion, regular out of the water maintenance means changing anode at least every two years.
People who neglect to do that will of course have problems.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by lestersails

Is the outboard gas or diesel?

If you can get a diesel outboard at reasonable price and weight, that would be a nice option but no, we had a fuel injected gas outboard and it was an AWESOME OPTION. (I think they can be found in some countries but not in the USA)

We lost a little on range but not a lot with a modern 4 stroke fuel injected engine. With a 350mile range coastal cruising, it was never a big issue.

The normal concerns with gas inboards are largely eliminated.
- The entire drivetrain is outside the hull, so fuel leak isn't going to introduce fumes into the hulls.
- The fuel tanks are on the bridge deck with the compartment bottom vented below the bridge deck, similarly eliminating fumes from entering the hulls.

Fuel injected, they just start. Runs quietly. We could easily talk from opposite sides of the cockpit while motoring. When we sold the boat the engine had 7 years and 1000hrs...other than a few oil changes (which we figured out how to do in the water including the lower unit), no other work. Outdrive and prop had no corrosion and the original paint.

Worst case for around $5-6k, we could drop an entire brand new drivetrain on including installation costs in an hour. (in fact we did that while at the dock in Tarpon Springs to replace the original 15yr old 2 stroke that ran OK but was a fuel hog)

[Sailing Hanse37]

Originally Posted by Cloroxbottle

Having had a saildrive gasket begin to leak while the boat was being launched and still in the slings (no harm done, they simply lifted it back out) there is absolutely zero chance that I would consider any boat with a saildrive besides an Etap, a Sadler, or a Catamaran for any passage making.

When that seal begins to leak, you're not stopping the leak and plan on sinking in short order in a location that may or may not be convenient for you.

Very very strange reaction: saildrives on all brands are exactly the same. Imho your reaction does not make sense.

[Georgieboy]

Keep all the long stories short. The Hanse 430 displaces about 11 tons (metric). As a rule of thumb every boatbuilder will announce a thrust of about 5 HP per ton. SO you need about 50 HP. You can get the Yanmar saildrive with a max. of 40 HP. And it still weighs 213 kg (470 lbs), no cooling water, no other liquids.

Go for the shaft drive. Forget saildrive for this type of boat. Its cheaper to make and cheaper to buy with saildrive, but a hassle on the long run.



Good luck

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If you can get a diesel outboard at reasonable price and weight, that would be a nice option but no, we had a fuel injected gas outboard and it was an AWESOME OPTION. (I think they can be found in some countries but not in the USA)

We lost a little on range but not a lot with a modern 4 stroke fuel injected engine. With a 350mile range coastal cruising, it was never a big issue.

The normal concerns with gas inboards are largely eliminated.
- The entire drivetrain is outside the hull, so fuel leak isn't going to introduce fumes into the hulls.
- The fuel tanks are on the bridge deck with the compartment bottom vented below the bridge deck, similarly eliminating fumes from entering the hulls.

Fuel injected, they just start. Runs quietly. We could easily talk from opposite sides of the cockpit while motoring. When we sold the boat the engine had 7 years and 1000hrs...other than a few oil changes (which we figured out how to do in the water including the lower unit), no other work. Outdrive and prop had no corrosion and the original paint.

Worst case for around $5-6k, we could drop an entire brand new drivetrain on including installation costs in an hour. (in fact we did that while at the dock in Tarpon Springs to replace the original 15yr old 2 stroke that ran OK but was a fuel hog)

Hi Valhalla
Your advantages make sense. Offsetting that to my mind would be the increased hazards of gasoline on board. Much of this thread is about sinking for sail drive seal failure or more severe disruption of the sail drive to hull attachment. I would think that the increased risks of fire from gasoline would be much greater than taking on water from the sail drive attachment leaks. Gasoline fires are horrific and rapid...
I bet insurance costs would be higher for carrying gasoline on board?
My gut would tell me safety desirability rank order would be: inboard diesel/shaft>diesel sail drive>gasoline outboard

[Sail Maui]

I'm told that you have to test the saildrive with an OHM meter to ensure it is not grounded (or within specified limits) and most mechanics are not aware of this specification.

[Andrew Lippman]

I use a buzzer.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Bill_Giles

Our Bavaria has a sail drive which has been virtually trouble free. We had one case of a leaky seal and the oil turned milky. Just replaced the prop shaft seal. We have replaced the big seal twice in the the 15 years we have had her (every 7 years). Both times the old seal looked new. Most people seem to leave them in for many more years than is recommended. When I asked our insurers they were not very forthcoming about claims if the seal was 8 years old, it leaked and boat sunk. I changed the seal myself both times. It is a couple of easy days work.

My friend had a big issue though. A fishing line somehow snaked through the seals and was drawn up into the gearbox. When miles of it got sufficiently massed it the gears they broke up. Fortunately his insurers coughed up for a new gearbox. Better than that, the supplier of the gearbox offered a complete new engine and gearbox/saildrive for only $1,000 more. An offer he could not resist.

Bill, you may have hit the nail right on the head. The horror stories about sail drives may be the result of the lack of timely seal replacement.

[shauncagiva]

I have an 84 etap 26 5 years on no issues with saildrive or seal out begining and end of season clean and only changed anods twice oil change yearly.

[petermjdavies]

Let’s get real here. Saildrives are built into thousands of yachts. I have had one for 30 years and my current boat had one. Yes they let water in just like any hole in a boat. If you let them get to that stage.

If you are seriously offshore perhaps not. But otherwise if you are cruising in civilised parts where you can haul out and do maintenance the difference between sail drive and shaft is all in your head.

[OneBoatman]

It sounds like you really love the boat. Buying a "saildrive" is the same as what you already know and have seen for many years on motorboats mostly under 40 ft or so, it's inboard/outboard propulsion. Installations are easier and cheaper so the manufacturers have gone this way because they help speed up the production line. Do you enjoy diving and cleaning underwater appendages? Do you want to become an expert on galvanic corrosion and how best to keep it floating? To me even if they could possibly offer slightly less drag than a shaft arrangement I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want it on cruiser. A saildrive will for sure provide an extra thing or two to keep your eye on. If you still want the boat and plan to keep it as a "forever boat" you might, after a period of first hand experience explore converting it to be shaft driven. So I would take look see to see if that doable, before buying it.