Nicholson 31 or Westsail 32?

[picklesandjesse]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Yep, thoughtful builder (Gary McAulay) and thoughtful designer (Jin Sayer). But I suspect that Jon's thoughts were more to have the mass of the engine near the center of the boat more than to have good access!.

I just had to replace the heat exchanger and it was a bitch of a job... even with the complete access. Had the engine been in a hole under the cockpit I might have offed myself rather than tackle it!

Jim

Oh I see, so you have some Nembutal ?? Save some for me please. You can buy it in China, easy. About 5 seconds I believe.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by sgwright

I spent an hour going over the N35 today and came away much as I expected: impressed with the quality and design of the boat overall (felt like a roomier N31), but it has just a few too many things to make me hesitate.



First, the good:



- 3rd owner has had it for 20 years, good maintenance logs, does own oil changes 2x/year, etc.

- boat is basically stock, which means no amateur hack jobs, but also dated electronics, etc. Everything seems to work.

- the head design is very nice, close both doors for a centre shower when you want it. He did add a pump out for the shower pan as he didn't like the water going to the bilge, which is a nice touch.

- original gelcoat top and bottom in good shape for age, no paint.

- newer vinyl headliner with teak strips for easy removal looks good

- interior overall good to v.good for age

- yearly haulout and bottom cleaning/painting

- some nice design features, like the head, the pilot seat, the reinforcement ribs inside the hull which also drain the decks below the waterline, preventing staining. Like the N31, it just feels like a quality boat everywhere you step.



And the not so good:

- original engine at 2800 hrs. Yes, I know it's a Merc, but it's still 43 years old, and access to either side means crawling into lockers. Didn't start it.

- the hydraulic drive scares me a bit, as I can imagine things could get expensive if it fails.

- sails are at least 20 years old (main, genoa, jib, and barely used spinnaker), but gently used by current owner in local cruising

- dark blue hull was polished in the summer and already looks poor, so maintenance will be an issue. Prefer white, but I assume painting is a big job.

- light blue topsides really not too my taste, but painting an even bigger job...



Not sure that I could live with a faded hull. If it were white, I'd be very tempted. I'm still pondering it.

Color of hull should be least of your worries. That’s how I got a good deal on my prior boat , a Luders 33. i made it look new with this:
https://interlux.com/en/us/boat-pain...ish/perfection

You have to realize to get a well pedigreed boat at your price range you’ll have to accept imperfections like you’ve listed.

[Pete7]

I agree with Jim and those Merc 636 engines were used widely including lots of small vans and industrial units etc.

If the gelcoat is dull despite being polished during the summer it needs some more work to cut it back and do it properly rather than a quick make over with an all in one car polish which just fills in the tiny scratches. Cutting it back and then polishing takes time but only needed once if you then keep up with the polishing every year.

I used to think the shower arrangement between the fore cabin and the saloon a dated arrangement. However, actually its just what is needed to live on board so you have a decent sized room to shower etc rather than the more cramped arangement at the rear of the saloon.

It would have been an expensive boat in its day built by hand by shipwrights. You can't buy that boat today it would cost too much to make.

Pete

[Cloroxbottle]

Originally Posted by sgwright

From the topsides, the Nicholson 31 and Westsail 32 seem quite different, but below the water, they are much more similar. Both are well regarded in the book "20 small sailboats to take you anywhere"...

Anyway, after about 6 months of looking, a '75 Westsail 32 (owner finished, one owner, in good shape), and a '76 Nicholson 31 are at the top of my list.

I've been looking for something suitable for a cruising couple (with occasional guests), starting out cruising in the BC Gulf Islands and Inside Passage. Eventually, I would like to cruise down the coast, to the South Pacific, the Caribbean, etc. My wife grew up on power boats, so a solid sailboat (so as not to scare her too much) is essential. Both of these boats seem to fit the bill.

The Westsail could probably sail tomorrow with minimal work (although it may have a leaking fuel tank, which I understand is a big job). Asking ~$40K CAD/32K USD, which is a bit beyond my budget, so doesn't leave much room for upgrades.

The Nicholson 31 will need to be hauled out for 1-3 months for new interior, good cleaning, possibility an engine rebuild (all of which I am comfortable doing). Asking price $10K CAD/7K USD

Pros for the Westsail - a much more popular boat around here, parts are available, a bit more space inside, cutter rig.
Cons for the Westsail - smaller cockpit, no quarter berth, interior ok, but dated.

Pros for the Nicholson - less teak to maintain on deck, cheaper moorage at 32' LOA, price leaves more $$ for upgrades, I can upgrade it how I want.
Cons for the Nicholson - rare boat so may be hard to find parts, needs lots of work (reflected in price), doesn't seem to be many weaknesses otherwise.

Interested in hearing from other Nicholson and Westsail owners, as I am about to make an offer on the N31 (may not be in the running as another offer is already on the table).

Thanks

I'm going to recommend the Nicholson simply because I've done too much reading on the internet and come to the admittedly uniformed conclusion that a Nicholson 31-35 is the ideal sailboat. That misconception will probably last till the day I actually see/sail on one in real life. [emoji4]

[bobmcd625]

Just checked out the Nic 35 for sale. That is a beauty. I'd go for that in a heartbeat. It's livable volume must equal that of the W32 and it's sailing characteristics will be much nicer. Condition seems pretty good, but you still want to have a complete survey done.

[sgwright]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Color of hull should be least of your worries. That’s how I got a good deal on my prior boat , a Luders 33. i made it look new with this:
https://interlux.com/en/us/boat-pain...ish/perfection

You have to realize to get a well pedigreed boat at your price range you’ll have to accept imperfections like you’ve listed.Attachment 182543Attachment 182544

Beautiful boat! Thanks for the info on the paint option. If we go for this boat, I would probably try cut polishing first. The many small crazing lines are very shallow, so it may just be wax build up in the cracks that will come out with a polish.

As with the W32, the N35 is already at the upper end of my price range, so it does not leave much room for improvements aside from my labour. The owner has indicated he will likely go with a broker in the spring, and get a basic survey done to set a price. He showed me a 2016 insurance survey, with the only deficiency found being the original manual propane valve (in the engine compartment!), which is an easy fix. There are few non-original holes in the topsides, so delamination shouldn't be an issue (it feels solid everywhere).

Part of me wonders if buying a cheap Catalina 27 to learn the ropes on while searching for the right boat, might be a better option. There are several ready to go for under $10K CAD, including one with IB diesel for $8500.

[sgwright]

Originally Posted by bobmcd625

Just checked out the Nic 35 for sale. That is a beauty. I'd go for that in a heartbeat. It's livable volume must equal that of the W32 and it's sailing characteristics will be much nicer. Condition seems pretty good, but you still want to have a complete survey done.

It's hard to say - I think the W32 still wins in cabin volume, as the N35 cockpit is quite large. It does have great storage in the 3 cockpit lockers, but the galley and nav table areas are smaller than the W32. The dinette seating is a bit narrower also, I think. The windows and white headliner make for a bright cabin, and the cabinets and sole are all original (no hack modifications), mostly in quite good condition.

[Juanona]

I sailed a W32 to New Zealand and around Cape Horn on my way back to Maine. Great oceangoing boat but not great for daysailing, light air, chop as others have said. I also spent a winter sailing a Nicholson 35 from Maine to the Caribbean and they are great boats, sail very nicely and much better than the W32, very comfortable for living aboard. In a survival storm give me the W32.

Here’s a story about the Cape Horn trip if interested, Very few 32 footers would I trust m6 life to down there.

Max Fletcher Sailing Adventures

Max

[Paul Howard]

Those who say the underwater shape of the Westsail 32 and Nicholson 31 are similar may not have looked closely at the two of them.
The Nicholson 31 has what is called a cut-away fore-foot. It is very much in the tradition of the Scandinavian Folkboat, the cut-away was meant to decrease the wetted surface of the underwater shape and to increase tacking ability, making the boat much more handy in close tacking situations. The extension of the keel to support the rudder was considered to be a safety and strengthening measure, especially for wooden boats, that the folkboats were originally.
Later underwater shapes to decrease underwater surface area were to take away some of the area between the rudder and the keel. Remember the Brewer Bight? The skeg hung rudder further decreased it and the spade rudder is more so.
The Westsail 32 is of the old pilot boat and fishing smack and Scandinavian lifeboat tradition with the keel being a carry on from the stem all the way to the heel of the keel and the lower rudder bearing.
The Westsail 32 is slow to tack and the Nicholson 31 much faster through the eye of the wind.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

I really like the Nicholson 31 but they are prone to severe blistering.

All boats of this vintage are blister queens. Our Nick 58 ketch, 1984, needed a bottom job. Lots of small blisters and a few big ones. If the Westsail is vinyl ester it will be less of a problem. You should plan to peel a polyester boat of this age. If it’s a good boat, it’s worth it. Document for your resale records.

[sgwright]

Originally Posted by Paul Howard

Those who say the underwater shape of the Westsail 32 and Nicholson 31 are similar may not have looked closely at the two of them.
The Nicholson 31 has what is called a cut-away fore-foot. It is very much in the tradition of the Scandinavian Folkboat, the cut-away was meant to decrease the wetted surface of the underwater shape and to increase tacking ability, making the boat much more handy in close tacking situations. The extension of the keel to support the rudder was considered to be a safety and strengthening measure, especially for wooden boats, that the folkboats were originally.
Later underwater shapes to decrease underwater surface area were to take away some of the area between the rudder and the keel. Remember the Brewer Bight? The skeg hung rudder further decreased it and the spade rudder is more so.
The Westsail 32 is of the old pilot boat and fishing smack and Scandinavian lifeboat tradition with the keel being a carry on from the stem all the way to the heel of the keel and the lower rudder bearing.
The Westsail 32 is slow to tack and the Nicholson 31 much faster through the eye of the wind.

Thanks for the thorough explanation. It may have been me who made the comment originally, so it is good to understand the reason for, and the effects of that cutaway forefoot.

[artisthos]

We had the same conundrum and went for the Bayfield 32. A lot lighter than the W32 probably similar to the N31. We got our Bayfield 32 for $12 and now another $12 for a new 30 Yanmar. Preparing it for world cruising and have never looked back. I wish we had the budget for the N31 or the W32. All three are hard to windward. Thank you for a great group. Click here for beer.

[double u]

& here is the heretic:
if you buy either of the two boats - make sure you keep your lady from ever looking at a more "modern" boat's interior...

[sgwright]

A few other local boats that have caught my eye, either because I like them, or they're for sail, or maybe even both:

1981 Endeavour 32 - reminds be a bit of a CS 30/36 (another boat I like), but nowhere near the build quality. Shoal keel based on Irwin 32, asking $25K CAD, but has been listed for 6+ months. I suspect if I were to go this route, a boat like at Catalina 27 or 30 would be a safer bet, and easier to sell later.

1990 Nimble 30 - Ted Brewer design, very nice looking, but shallow keel/cb I'm not too sure about. No idea if I could afford it, not for sale at present.

1975 Nicholson 35 - still considering this one, although it needs a lot of work. I do like the build quality of the Nics, but things like embedded chainstays, dark blue gelcoat, hydraulic drive and aging sails are reason to give me pause. Of course, I will be on the lookout for other Nics like the 31 and 32, but they are quite rare here. I think I prefer the N31 over the 35, but I haven't seen a 32 up close yet.

CS 30/36 - The 36 is out of my price range, but there is a CS30 near me that was listed at $25K, but is off the market until the spring. A bit plain perhaps, but no wood to maintain, and good build quality - I've seen several locally and they all appear to be aging very well, unlike similar vintage production boats.

As you can see, my list of possibilities is quite varied, and as spring approaches, but I'll probably be looking at anything I can get in my price range that will get me sailing without too much hassle. Researching boats is fun on these rainy days, but soon I'll be wanting to sail rather than just read about it!
Happy Holidays everyone...

[SKG56]

Here is a Nic 35 in Phuket, its listed on Boatshed Phuket, this is a fine example, it is out of your price range and also a long way from your part of the world, Since I spend most of my time in SEA when I'm not working I've been looking for another boat in Asia, Austrailia or NZ, sold my W32 because I just couldn't get to her but once a year, and that was for about a week. Thought I was going to get out of my line of work but its been harder to give up than I thought it would be. I think I can see putting this down in 2019. The only thing about this Nic 35 is it had a termite infestation, they say it's been irradicated but it makes me leary, There was another W32 in Thailand, a very nice one and loaded but it looks like it will sell before I can get to it, The top 2 on my list is the Hans Christian 33 and the Baba 35, I couldn't afford them before but now I can, I think I'll just hang loose until the right one pops up, I love the W32 but its not for somebody that wants a weekend boat, she's made for long distance, my plan was to sail her to Thailand and take about 3-5 years to do it, I just couldn't make myself stop working, maybe soon