New boat vs Used boat

[bjymd]

I have two comments: first that a new boat loses a quarter of its value (resale ) when it leaves the dock to go to your dock and may actually require work to bring little things up to par. I always think of the cat "cheeky monkey" which was brand new at the time of purchase and took 6 months and several visits to registered repair places just to get the autopilot fixed so it would work. It is not unusual for everything to go through a phase of requiring adjustment ($$)
Second a used boat must be judged by its age, as explained above, because everything deteriorates at a different rate. At 15 years, you will need sails, rigging, thru hulls, electronics, refrigeration and zircon updated or replaced. At 30 years it is likely you will need to redo all of the previously mentioned plus get set and engine.
I was looking to spend $225 + some for repairs and was able to get the seller to split the cost of things that needed to be done to obtain insurance (rigging, thru hulls ,& sails. All done during the first six months. Now I am working on bimini, dodger cushions, salon cushions electronics and arch with solar. I will still pay half of the cost of a new boat by doing it this way. I should add secondly that a well maintained boat managed by a good charter company ( Horizon in my case) gives added value by decreasing initial cost. It is all in the survey and knowledge of the surveyor that protects you.
Good luck and fair winds

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

There is sense of accomplishment if you do something like a circumnavigation.
I don't know if this is true or not, but I read somewhere that more people have climbed Mt Everest than have circumnavigated.
It's quite an accomplishment in my book

I think of course there is a sense of accomplishment. Sail off in one direction and keep sailing until you come all the way around. You have gotten all the way around under your own power, your own navigation, your own means -- the world. Damn right you'd have a sense of accomplishment, and a well-deserved one in my opinion.

It's not really for me, however, as I don't really like the tropics, and I find trade winds sailing to be rather boring. But rounding Cape Horn . . . we were discussing that in another thread.

It's a different activity from thoroughly exploring some beautiful corner of the world, which is probably the more important and more rewarding cruising activity for most people, but one doesn't exclude the other.

[SV Bacchus]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I think of course there is a sense of accomplishment. Sail off in one direction and keep sailing until you come all the way around. You have gotten all the way around under your own power, your own navigation, your own means -- the world. Damn right you'd have a sense of accomplishment, and a well-deserved one in my opinion.

Agreed and one day I may have that itch, right now I don't. Maybe after we've had the bigger boat for a couple of years we may head west and keep going.

[El Pinguino]

This idea that you need to replace all the 'systems' when you buy a used boat is not , in my opinion, correct.

Yes, some stuff may need replacing, but most will not.

I bought my boat when she was 8 years old and have now had her for 23 years.

She had spent her first four years in a sailing school and her next four doing a quarter circumnav ( UK / Thailand ) so had been well used.

Leaving aside the fact that the mast fell off three weeks after buying her... I hope I'm a bit wiser now.... what needed replacing??

Well the sails were pretty shot - although the storm jib is still OK and still in use - and it would appear that the rigging needed attention...

Apart from that... in the first year or two I got rid of the windlass ( manual Vetus ) which had corroded from the inside out, and chain as she had spent much of the previous four years at anchor, the cooker was replaced... it was 'caravan quality' ... engine exhaust hose , all running rigging, the dinghy, new batteries, Beaufort liferaft.

That was it.... the 'year of the pump' came along when she was about 22 years old... every pump on the boat failed within 12 months .... it would appear that is the life of rubber diaphragms.

Major work came along when she was about 30 years old ... osmosis and replacement of treadmaster deck.

The last bit of original stuff to go was the Eberspacher which I replaced 4 months ago and some stuff has been replaced more than once - rigging, working bits of the 'fridge, and there is now not very much of the original boat left.

Of course you need to carry spares if you are heading out but you do not need to replace stuff that is still working.....

[barnakiel]

Yes. As someone above noted not all new developments lead to universal improvement. At times, something gets 'lost' to progress.

To me, it is the fabulous gentle upwind movement of a long keel, no overhangs, narrow hull. Lost on ALL modern fast and light boats.

Some of the classics that look like dream but sail downwind like (self-edited word) are actually the best boats I have sailed upwind in realistic open sea conditions. It is like slicing a cake of soft butter with a knife.

Some modern boats that I otherwise adore, sail upwind fast and efficiently, they beat any older design BUT the movement is still jerky and not at all comfortable. All this with thousands of dollars in carbon hulls and entry angles one Nth of a typical cruising boat.

So, to me, the lesson is: get a boat that fits the kind of passages and seas that you are crossing. Old school hulls are terrible downwind, new school hulls are as terrible upwind. Have you pick.

;-)

No, I did not know all this buying our own.

Cheers,
b.

[fuentes]

I believe two words might bring another perspective to this discussion "enjoy and satisfaction". I am a semi-retired, 76 year old rancher-dirt farmer. I have spent a life time keeping old farm equipment running. I am not bragging, just pointing out if you have the know how and desire to do work on your boat. I purchased a 1999 45' Leopard over two years ago in the BVI. Ever since I got "her" (this is on another thread), I have had to adjust, repair, rebuild, replace, add, JBweld, connect, disconnect, etc. from the BVI to Baja California and ever since. Everytime we go out, something else comes up or goes out! What do you do? Laugh or cry? Have you ever seen an old man cry? Here is where the two words come in. I enjoy fixing things and get a great satisfaction of getting it done (probably manana-not today). To me, sailing (and/or attempting depending on the weather) and fixing is part of the joy and satisfaction of having my boat (just like my old tractor-some from the 1940s). I am now familiar with most of the systems and will probably become familiar with the others soon. It is a great conversation with other boater. What price or value do you put on that?

[JPA Cate]

Of course you need to carry spares if you are heading out but you do not need to replace stuff that is still working.....

Yeah, funny about that, El Pinguino, there are places other than one's country of origin where really good boat work can take place! Which is really super!

Ann

[BandB]

While I understand all the finances that favor used boats, I only purchase new. I want minimum problems, not just short term, long term as well. Many problems of boats are due to less than ideal maintenance over the years. If I buy it new, I control everything ever done to the boat. I have the history, but even more, I made the history. I can insure it's always maintained at a top level. I put a lot of use on boats and keep them a good while so in buying used I would be much closer to having problems than someone who uses one very little. I just feel more comfortable with new.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by fuentes

I believe two words might bring another perspective to this discussion "enjoy and satisfaction". I am a semi-retired, 76 year old rancher-dirt farmer. I have spent a life time keeping old farm equipment running. I am not bragging, just pointing out if you have the know how and desire to do work on your boat. I purchased a 1999 45' Leopard over two years ago in the BVI. Ever since I got "her" (this is on another thread), I have had to adjust, repair, rebuild, replace, add, JBweld, connect, disconnect, etc. from the BVI to Baja California and ever since. Everytime we go out, something else comes up or goes out! What do you do? Laugh or cry? Have you ever seen an old man cry? Here is where the two words come in. I enjoy fixing things and get a great satisfaction of getting it done (probably manana-not today). To me, sailing (and/or attempting depending on the weather) and fixing is part of the joy and satisfaction of having my boat (just like my old tractor-some from the 1940s). I am now familiar with most of the systems and will probably become familiar with the others soon. It is a great conversation with other boater. What price or value do you put on that?

Nice post, Fuentes, and points out a difference in attitude between you (and me) and many folks who post here. Fixing stuff is part and parcel of long term cruising, and a mind set where this is enjoyable (at least to some degree) is a benefit to the cruising sailor.

Those who anticipate a trouble free sailing life as a result of buying a new yacht are likely to have unpleasant surprises now and then (and the next day too!).

Jim

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

There is sense of accomplishment if you do something like a circumnavigation.
I don't know if this is true or not, but I read somewhere that more people have climbed Mt Everest than have circumnavigated.
It's quite an accomplishment in my book

Not sure, but I think that quote refers to single handed circumnavigators.

Jim

[softdown]

If you want to sail around the world, buy a boat that has sailed around the world. Save a ton of money and headaches getting it ready for that.

Unlike cars, it is simply impossible to keep a boat from getting damaged here and there. There is no new car smell either.

You will need a lot of money to get a boat properly outfitted for world cruising. A quality watermaker and solar equipment are on the must have list of many experienced cruisers. Refrigeration and a/c.......

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by BandB

While I understand all the finances that favor used boats, I only purchase new. I want minimum problems, not just short term, long term as well. Many problems of boats are due to less than ideal maintenance over the years. If I buy it new, I control everything ever done to the boat. I have the history, but even more, I made the history. I can insure it's always maintained at a top level. I put a lot of use on boats and keep them a good while so in buying used I would be much closer to having problems than someone who uses one very little. I just feel more comfortable with new.

I understand what you're suggesting, but there is a way to do this when buying a used boat. In our case we carry plenty of spare parts for everything that tends to breakdown, including all pumps, impellers, compressors, starter motors, hose kits, motor brushes, you name it... we have it. So essentially we're also carrying around all the new stuff to replace the old when it goes. Kinda like having a new boat along for the ride.

No untimely delays.

[weavis]

I have only ever bought one new boat in my life. A 17 foot 40 hp powered fishing Dory when I was in my teens. It seems incrementally the price for a vessel I liked since then shot up out of all proportion.

I dont have the finances to buy new. Its not that my taste is excessive, more like boats are darned expensive! The good side is that I dont do borrowed money and everything, and I mean everything I have is paid for. I just feel better that way.

Whilst I love the look of Oysters, Moody's, Hallberg Rassy et al, I dont want one. To those that have and enjoy..kudos. Im just not in the bracket for replacing systems starting at 20K a go.

I also will get a catamaran for the Med this time. It suits my lifestyle more.

I know if I were wealthy, I would consider a new catamaran, only to be honest, I dont like most of them. The design, the cost of maintenance, this or that etc. I only ever had one new car and spent most of the time irritated at how my mind was always looking for safe places to keep it when out, watching out for road debris so as to not scratch it, valeting the thing all the time.... I didnt enjoy my investment.

My next cat will be sub 36 foot. It will probably be at least 10 years old. The price will be at most.. less than 100K, and much less if the prices keep dropping the way they are.

I view a lot of Cats here in Spain. I can tell you by model and year more or less what will need replacing. Any Cat at 15 years old will need all the rigging changed. The sails will need checking carefully. The deck safety rails will need attention. The engines will need attention. windows will need examining, toilets will definitely need attention. Some marques will need the fuel tanks cleaned. Cabin mattresses will probably need cleaned and replaced etc etc etc....not to mention electronics and mast wiring issues. Anchors probably need upgrading.

Sunlight alone and poor storage will cause 70% of problems.

However, at 20 years old, in the hands of a good owner, most of these jobs will have been attended to. Through hulls will have been changed, engines overhauled, rigging new, sails new etc etc etc. In the hands of a bad owner, the price offered to him by a prospective customer will reflect the amount of investment require to bring the vessel up to scratch.

So, I agree with Dockhead. People unload at 8 to 10 years and push the big costs onto the next purchaser...at 15 to 20 years, there are bargains to be had if one is aware of the known faults on a marque of vessel and depending of work done to it, the price could be sweet.

Right now, Gemini 105s are coming down to a reasonable price, good cats for coastal and short hops, if maintained, excellent value. Older Cats like Catalacs are less than $20K and some in remarkable condition... Older Lagoons and FPs are showing around the $100k mark. Check carefully.

Edel 35s are @ the 50K mark.
Ive seen PDQs in good condition around the 90K mark.
Solaris sunrise 36 in excellent repair Ive seen around the 60k mark.
Fountaine Pajot Antigua 37 for around the 90k mark.

All these represent HUGE savings over new, the only caveat is that the vessel must be judged on its individual merits.

For my personal circumstances, I dont require the vessel fit for oceanic voyages. Just somewhat comfortable to live on and fitted out for coastal Med cruising and short hops between Spain and Italy, France etc.... Ive had one here already...just got a great offer for it and let it go.. I wasnt in love with the boat so it was not hard.

Choose the vessel for your requirements, not because it is x or y make. Decide whether you want to work on it or not. This alone will determine a purchase price... but in any event, prepare to spend a minimum of 20% more for unspotted faults.



It still will be much cheaper than new... just not with that new car smell or crisp shine..

[Eleuthera 2014]

Amel (Sail) Boats For Sale

Sorted for you.... each one is equipped ex factory for a RTW..

GL with your search

[fuentes]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I understand what you're suggesting, but there is a way to do this when buying a used boat. In our case we carry plenty of spare parts for everything that tends to breakdown, including all pumps, impellers, compressors, starter motors, hose kits, motor brushes, you name it... we have it. So essentially we're also carrying around all the new stuff to replace the old when it goes. Kinda like having a new boat along for the ride.

No untimely delays.

I have a fool proof, guarantied way for something not to break down. Carry a spare! Everything else may fail, but not the one you have a spare for!
Or at least it feels this way sometimes!