Motorsailor vs Sailboat

[John Drake]

I think the very nice Nauticat 42 demonstrates a point I was trying to make above. It is a terrific sailboat. Nauticat may call it a motorsailor....but with a PHRF of 102, really it is a sailboat with a somewhat bigger engine (which any and now many Sailboats can have).

The 331 provides and example of the other side of the spectrum. This is also a great boat for its ability to increased space and provide both sailing and motoring capability. A true motorsailor. But....I think you would have to agree that in order to do so, it gives up the space and engine a 33ft trawler would have and cannot sail nearly as well as the average 33ft sloop.

Not to say the 331 is a bad boat...it's not...and that is not the point. The point is that it is a compromise boat and thus cannot maximize both its trawler aspect and sailboat aspect.

My best to all.

John
Nice pics Joe. Hope you are doing well. I go in the water on Fri. Cannot wait.

[Naughty Cats]

John Drake once whispered in the wind:
... Nauticat may call it a motorsailor...

Nauticat42 (Get a load of the name!)

Not to belabor the point, John, but Nauticat does not call their 42 a "motorsailor". They are very insistent upon calling it a "pilothouse sailboat". I am less fussy about the distinction. You may call any sailboat with an engine a "motorsailor", as far as I'm concerned (or for that matter, any motorboat with a sail).

We plan to head north next month, and may not go farther than the Chesapeake. Our skeg rudder is tailor-made for snagging toggle-rigged lobster potwarp downeast, as we learned last summer in Maine. We had to put off our Bahamas/Caribbean plans this year due to unforseen circumstances, but next year for sure!

Nauticat is asking us to display our boat at the Annapolis show this fall. I don't know why they even try here in the US with the euro so high, but they still manage to sell some boats.

BTW, it's nice to find this site, after the looney-toons on that other board!

[John Drake]

Hi Joe

I mis-read something here then....about Nauticat designating it a motorsailor. I agree with you....any sailboat with an engine could be a "motorsailor". It is more like, ' I know it when I see it'. Not a big deal.

Your gorgeous boat does make the point though: why not get a great boat that can SAIL.

Come on up, the weather is getting better. It is going to be a great season here.

And yes, glad to have found this place. The other self destructed some time ago.

Best to you

John
s/v Invictus

[Alan Wheeler]

Wow what a beatiful boat guy's. Is all that Teak Real or that imitation stuff?? It looks beatiful which ever it is.

Oh yeah, I have been poping over to the looney tunes sight as well. Real shame what happened. It just show's you have to keep the reigns held in tight right from the beginning. It's too hard to call rules once things have already gone to pot. That is what will hold this site together. Oppps I am straying of topic on this thread, Sorry. But I don want to make a comment. Sailing, especially off shore Cruising, is about Family. Whether including Kids or not, it still involves Family and community. I am not a prude and I view nudity with a reasonably open mind. But that palce and there new Rebel site, is not somnewhere I would want my kids to be viewing. And with some of their weird views on such, nor are they people I would want my kids to meet. There are a couple of ones that give me the creeps over on those two sites.
Sorry for the rant, back to the topic.

[Naughty Cats]

Alan,

That handrail is teak. I coated ours with Bristol Finish. Most Nauticats have teak decks, but I opted not to have them. I almost had a teak-free boat topside, but Nauticat puts teak where nobody else does. I guess they didn't want me to miss the joys of varnish. I have seen some 37's with stainless rails as "lifelines".

[Euro Cruiser]

I was glad to see Peg & Joe's posts as it gets us back to the point of the thread, which originated when we were asked if a Nauticat, which the originator liked very much, was suitable as a cruising sailboat...meaning essentially 'Caribbean' and perhaps USA East Coast. I think there's abundant evidence (as opposed to theory or conjecture based on generic definitions) that Nauticats satsify cruising sailors abundantly. For the sake of the original post, here are a few examples:
-- TRIUMPH is a N42 and was sailed by a 60+/50+ husband & wife for three years thru-out the Caribbean with much pleasure. When they returned to Tampa, they decided it was equally suitable for an Atlantic Crossing. They will soon return to Rota, Spain where their boat is wintered ashore and carry on into the Med. Space, tankage, storage, inside steering and sailing performance are all high on their list of 'attritibutes'
-- Art is a physician in New Mexico who bought a N38 new at the factory in Finland and has been seasonally sailing the boat, with crew flying in to assist him in legs, for I believe 5 years now. When you think about the northern Baltic, Biscay, and now the Med, he's certainly seen a variety of wind & seas. He's very high on his choice and also notes how suitable it is for canal work.
-- A Swiss couple we met in Sweden picked up their new Nauticat (do they make a 36 now? that seems like the size it was...) and, totally new to sailing, we're having an easy time of it in the Baltic because the boat was easily handled, had comfortable inside steering when it was needed, a thruster for the small yacht basins up there, and would soon be taking it in the canals enroute the Med from the Baltic. (Talk about the easy way...!)

John's not debating how many angels dance on the head of a pin, IMO. Some of the attributes these owners mention (inside steering, large tankage, abundant storage, multiple sleeping cabins) place significant demands on the design brief. As a result, these boats tend to have more windage which affects how they sail and how easily they are to manage by short-handed crews when maneuvering. As always with boat design, there is no free lunch. But for the question posed, I think the answer is that Nauticats are well engineered and adaptable to many cruising venues. Are some of the main attributes needed for East Coast/Caribbean cruising. For seasonal ICW work, perhaps yes. For the Caribbean, less so. But now we're into the fine points of picking the right compromises in the right order, which only the buyer can do.

John, as I recall you're closing in on a shoving-off date. Where are you now, and what's The Plan these days?

Jack
jack_patricia @ yahoo.com

[Naughty Cats]

We are acquainted with the Bishops, owners of the Nauticat 43 TRIUMPH. Their crew for the Atlantic crossing is also a Nauticat 43 owner (DENALI ROSE). Here's a link to the website describing that crossing : http://www.nauticatowners.com/bishop/

I am also aware of two Nauticat 42's that crossed with a recent Atlantic Rally for Cruisers (ARC).

I recently met the owner of NAKACHA, a Nauticat 42. He circumnavigated the globe in her and has her listed for sale in England, though, after a brief visit aboard our boat, he seemed to be reconsidering her sale. Here's a link to NAKACHA's listing:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi..._id=29384&url=

Here's a listing that may interest Iris and partner: http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...71&slim=quick&

These examples do not per se prove these boats ideal for these voyages, but they all did accomplish them safely.

Our plans are less ambitious; to cruise the US east coast and island-hop to the Caribbean, for which our 42 seems quite well-suited. Perhaps, after that, like the Bishops, we'll hatch more ambitious plans.

Nauticat 43 TRIUMPH

[John Drake]

Hi Jack

Nice post with excellent well thought out info as always. Hope things are warming up in London.

All is well here. I spent 3 wonderful days aboard...Invictus was splashed on fri (my day off). SO good to sleep aboard again, I cannot tell you.

Don't want to hijack, just to let you know, plans are still basically on track. Will be in the ches this season. Had been planning on NOV breakaway but family matters, extra work and an additional benefit may delay 6 months. Actually makes sense in the cruise plan as I would then head north instead of south and go back to Cuttyhunk, Vineyard, Nantucket etc etc. Then head south perhaps via Bermuda. We'll see.

And ...back to the thread, I think your post regarding the demands placed on a design brief viz a vie motorsailor make the point.

All the best

John
ps - will you be back to the ches anytime?

[Euro Cruiser]

John:

"will you be back to the ches anytime?"
Regrettably, no. As much as we're looking forward to Portugal and Spain (and tan lines for the first time in two years!), the Chesapeake always beckons. When we're two doddering oldtimers (do we qualify now?!), we'll plow up the ICW to enjoy those anchorages and perhaps winter in Baltimore or Norfolk.

Congrats on being so close. You must be able to smell it! Those last-year extensions often pop up, and you probably will remember the benefit of the extra money well after the work is a dim memory. Hope the family details sort themselves out and best wishes.

Jack

[John Drake]

Hi Jack

I would take Portugal and Spain. Check out Sardinia though (La Mad), I thought it the most beautiful place to sail in the Med. As for Spain....a distant faint memory of sliding down a staircase in the dimly lit El Convento at 0200 somewhere around El Puerto de la Santa Maria, chasing a beautiful.....dream....

Ahh those were the days.

Oh well.



<End of hijack>

Best to you

J

[Euro Cruiser]

John, I think you're giving us glimpse of youth in full flower and the Sixth Fleet. Those were the days, indeed...

Sandinia...one of the few nice stops, we've been told, on our way to the truly good cruising grounds of the Med: Croatia, Greece & Turkey. Thanks for the tip!

Jack (former member of the Silent Service)

[Naughty Cats]

Just in case the original posters are still interested;

The Nauticat 42 exhibited at Miami was ketch-rigged. I thought the mizzen's standing rigging intruded into the cockpit a bit too much. I am not at all against ketch rigs, but FWIW, I just don't think it suits this particular boat.

(Another former bubblehead here--and Rickover refugee)

[Sam Plan B]

I own a Columbia 41 (1974) and I have seen it discribed as a Motorsailor. It has the original Perkins 4-108 engine with a 100 gallon diesel tank to stbd. Opposite to port is a 100 gallon water tank. The boat has a cast iron fin keel with a skeg protecting the rudder. The hull has fairly round sections below the water line and has high freeboard especially forward. It will tack in its own length. The boat is very stable and can carry a good press of sail. Performance is not so good in light air. There is plenty of storage space and appears to have long range capabilities though I have not been on an extended cruise as yet.

You can also consider Morgan 41 boats. They were designed for the charter market and are also sometimes called motorsailors. They have lots of room below and are well laid out on deck. They are also well known and have good resale value.

Both of the above boats can be found in the $25,000 to $50,000 range depending on the condition of the boat and the financial need of the current owner. I paid $25k for my Columbia and there was a Morgan next to it on the hardstand asking price $35k.

The thing with older boats is this. It is hard to get financing for anything older than 10 years. So, you should be prepared to pay cash.

[sailorgal]

Hello everyone. I forgot all about this thread that I started a few years ago. Since then, we have decided we would like to go for a cruising catamaran. We came very close to buying a Catalac 12M just last month, but a family health issue interfered with the closing, and we also reconsidered buying a second boat right now. We still have our 48' motor vessel (with twin Cat 4608s) that my significant other lives aboard. We know that this is not a good time to sell a boat, and we didn't want to have to pay for the upkeep of two boats, plus a payment on the catamaran.

In the meantime, we have been told by several of our sailing friends that we should cruise in our current boat. We'd like to do the Keys, Bahamas, DR, maybe a little further down island in the Caribbean. We are thinking of listing our boat for sale, but cruising her until she sells and then looking for the sailing cat. We love our current boat and if diesel weren't so expensive, we'd be happy cruising around on her.

In the last week one of our sailing friends told us he was thinking of selling his Privilege 39 for a very good price. We know the boat and know she has been very well taken care of, so we are again struggling with the decision, but with the money for paying for another boat (slip fees, etc.) we could fill up the 500 gallon tanks in our current boat several times. The range for our boat at 8 knots is about 800 miles.

Anyway, we are confused as to what to do. We don't have a firm timeframe on when to start cruising, but my boyfriend wants to go this year. He is in Northwest Florida living on the boat, retired. I'm in central Florida working at a job that may end soon.

Well, sorry for rambling on, but for those of you who are cruising in motor vessels/trawlers, how do costs compare to sailboats. Of course, if you stay in one place for longer periods of time, you won't have to fill up the fuel tanks that often. I wouldn't mind hanging out in the DR for months at time.

Cheers!

[Cheechako]

The nauticats are great boats. Sail as well as many of the over loaded heavy sailboats people are cruising in out there and are defintiely seaworthy. But I suppose it depends on the type of sailor you are. For instance, going from Grenada to Trinidad is about 95 miles if I remember right. It seems there is often more sloppy seas than the wind can justify. When you reach Trini you are faced with strong currents at certain tide changes. Will you gut it out and spend 20 hours sailing there for a few gallons of fuel? or will you turn on the engine when the winds are not really pushing you along and get there in 12 hours while sitting in your captains chair watching the GPS and Radar?