Boat Size !

[JMaav]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

”…especially if the wife is a weak sailor.”

I hope you didn’t really just say that! Shame on you… LOL. A trap we all fall into these days…

I think the best summary between the 30 and the 36 foot is above by ‘Sparx’. Cabin size is probably the greatest difference, standing headroom… The ability to carry more livable equipment, etc.

That being said, I confess that my focus tends to move more towards performance. When I cruise, I like to make sure I can get there when I need to. There are just too many boats out there that just don’t make the speed necessary for today’s cruising. Many of us just don’t have weeks or months to get out on the water and go places. Maybe a weekend here to get there, and the weekend there to get back… All kinds of odd travel arrangements in between.

So when you think of size, think of more than just what it means to you and ‘livability’… Think about what you intend to do with the boat. Is it a live aboard? A weekend cruiser? Monthly travels in the summer? Winter in the Caribbean? All of the above? These are the kinds of things to be thinking about. Yes, size does matter…

[Rothblum]

Originally Posted by Na Mara

The reason costs increase proportionally with the cube of LOA is because volume, and thereby displacement, increase by the cube of LOA. Roughly this implies that the forces on a sail boat will increase 8 times every time you double length. Those greater forces require proportionally more substantive gear and therefore proportionally greater costs to repair and replace said gear. They also increase the load and workload on the crew.

This is not quite correct. For the same speed, aero- and hydrodynamic forces on a sailboat increase as the area, which goes up as the square of the length.

[Tanqueray]

Originally Posted by Lady Captin

Hi , this is Lady Captains first mate , lol .

I have a question, and I realize that it is not an easy answer! I know there are a tons of variables in the question! I am not looking for a definitive answer per say!
More just some positive feedback, to think about !

We are looking to purchase our first blue water sail boat in the next couple of years and we are really torn between the size of boat ! We have done a good deal of research and know bigger boats means greater cost !

However we are wondering just how much the cost Is affected between say a 30 foot boat and a 36 foot boat , regarding maintenance and running cost . As we all know Lin and Larry Pardy , did the world on a very small boat , so it’s do able ! However for those that have upsized maybe 5-6 feet how have you found it cost wise .

Given a greater purchase price as a given , looking for some positive, dare I say kind thoughtful insight from those who have tackled the same issue in their own minds !

I am not looking to compare specific boats ,as that is can of worms , lol . More just some experience with going bigger , or perhaps even smaller and lessons learned.


Ps , just to be clear 36 foot would be at the top of our budget and consideration, this is a personal decision, based on personal financial and research considerations, thank you !
Thank you Paul

Split the difference and get a 33-34 footer. Heavily built is best if you intend to sail oceans.

Greg

[barryglewis]

Originally Posted by LargeMarge

On YouTube, eighty-year old life-long sailor-builder Sven Yrvind offers daily up-dates while he assembles his latest contraption... a twenty-foot for extended off-shore cruises.
.
Apparently, he 'travels' (some might call it 'lolly-gagging'...) months off-shore -- without re-supply -- on his home-made sailboats.
This version is foam...
.
.
PS:
Apparently, his surname translates as 'Whirlwind'!

What is "lolly-gagging?

[Tanqueray]

Originally Posted by barryglewis

What is "lolly-gagging?

You know… moseying along….stopping to smell the roses….


lollygagging (present participle)
spend time aimlessly; idle.
"he sends her to Arizona every January to lollygag in the sun"
synonyms:
do nothing · be inactive · vegetate · sit back · take it easy · rest on one's oars · mark time · kick one's heels · twiddle one's thumbs · [more]
dawdle.


Greg

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by barryglewis

What is "lolly-gagging?

spend time aimlessly; idle.

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by Na Mara

Generally the bigger the boat the safer, faster and more comfortable it will be, but also the more costly, complex and difficult to handle it will be as well.

Smaller boats are safer than larger ones.

1. smaller boat has lower loads so when something breaks it is less likely to injure you.
2. accidental jibe is less dangerous
3. falling from the mast is less likely to injure you because of a shorter mast
4. lightning is less likely to strike a shorter mast
5. customs officials are less likely to hassle you (except in new zealand because they do things backwards there)
6. Smaller boats float over waves rather than having to push through them consider how cats can fall from very high, and spiders and most bugs can fall from any height, but elephants can not even jump. This is just a physical fact that smaller lighter things have less impacts and for a given hull thickness the smaller boat will be much stronger.
7. smaller boats are less dangerous during docking, less likely to crush you should you slip between the boat and dock.
8. smaller boat cost less have less danger of ending your cruising for lack of funds.

So lets stop the misconception that larger boats are "safer" when in fact it is completely the opposite. The norwegian 80 year old just sailed 20ft boat in north atlantic and whole boat can tumble without serious damage. People have survived hurricanes in small boats when larger ones would have (or did) sink.

Most will tell you that the sweet spot with only manual sail handling gear is somewhere between 40 and 45ft. With power gear you can go up to 55-60ft. In the range you are talking about the 20%

a 40ft boat is really not so easy to sail compared to a smaller size. So it is possible sure, but is it worth it?

That is a huge difference in comfort and safety and as 36ft is still well within what can be single handed manually there really is no reason not to go bigger if you can afford to.

Again with the "safety" just remember it is less safe to go bigger. Larger boats are also less comfortable except in the very center of the boat. This is subjective but a lot of people get more easily seasick on larger boats because of the larger accelerations.

[Morequestions]

I looked up the fee's for visiting the Bahamas. A boat 34 foot and under costs $150, a boat 35 foot and bigger costs $300. I haven't seen what the fee's are elsewhere yet.

[Mara Mae]

We started with a heavy 40 footer and now are very happy in a moderate heavy 30'. Both were 'traditional designs.'

[David Johnson]

Lots of thoughtful, well-informed opinions and ideas. The best way to get 10 different recommendations is to ask five sailors on two different days!!
So here are mine:
First, remember that Larry Pardey was the taller of the couple, and he was barely 5'2" tall. In my opinion, headroom below is hugely important for cruising and liveaboard.
Second, a general rule of thumb is that cost/complexity/muscle necessary varies as the cube of the overall length in feet plus the displacement in pounds. That's at least a place to start in doing comparisons.
Third, definitely think carefully and thoughtfully about what you realistically will actually do with the boat, and choose one that does that best.
Good luck!

[boatman61]

Very important.. ask for some time alone on the boat.
Try out the bunks for comfort, lounge in the saloon, tinker in the galley and try the 'heads' for a fit..
If you can 'see' yourself living on her.. she's the one.

[wgerstmyer]

With our new ‘88 Freedom 36, My partner moved up from a Sabre 28 and I moved down from a C&C41. With the F36’s almost catboat location of the mast (and self-tacking jib so tacking is just turning the wheel) the interior room is better than the 41! Easily sailed solo and no leaving the cockpit as all lines, including two reefing points, come back to the cockpit.
So features matter. We’ve been out 150 days so far so definitely livable. This older boat was $30k and we’ve got everything we want in it for another $15k. We anchor and pick up empty moorings in New England so marina fees are zero (your lifestyle may be different and costs at marinas are greater per foot of length and overall costs for the amount of equipment that make the boat better). I am so in love with this “sweet spot” for us. Would definitely cross an ocean though I agree with Joh Ghurt that his list is 98% of what we’ll do and that’s why this boat is perfect for us. Try out different boats even at the same length and you’ll see that even For daily life at least two of your concerns will jump out at you: can I see us living aboard this tiny house? Can we get somewhere to safety if one of us gets hurt? The F36 has blown us away and we only stumbled onto it as it is not a traditional sloop. And so many boats have quirks and differing amounts of equipment installed by previous owners that you need to be open to weighing those differences by trying them under sail. Good luck!

[fc59]

On maintenance costs for older boats, I think there is a considerable lucky factor and psychological factor. Far more important than a difference in boat age (25-40 years) or length (32"-38")

I know one owner who has bought a older sailboat at the beginning of the year, has sailed the season with as is, and sold it recently for the price he initially paid. And with strictly absolute NO maintenance done. Except a cabin / deck cleaning.

Another one also bought an older sailboat but some years ago. Had an somewhat small engine failure. But just found that new spares were no longer available for his engine. Ended by replacing with a more recent used engine. And now asking about rotten balsa core in deck...

[boatman61]

I lived on a 23ftr quite happily for a couple of years.. it had an outboard for power and the engine compartment was great storage space.. and it had 6ft headroom.
Did not sail terribly well but took me to Cherbourg and back a few times.
Seems tiny now but was comfortable, dry and easy to keep clean.

[wgerstmyer]

Seandepagnier has a vastly different experience about safety than others here like me. If you want blue water there are going to be times when your passage will be far rougher than you expected from what the weather window predicted. There will be a build up from decent winds, height of seas and strength of currents before it reaches its worst moments (or hours) and then back down again. This can go on for days. Thus, I am interested in balancing how to sail in rough conditions with how to be comfortable for the greatest number of hours including heaving-to when making headway (sailing) is no longer an option. A larger boat can handle more of the build-up than a smaller one making the rougher hours a smaller percentage of your passage, ie, something more manageable.
Of course, anything is possible in any boat, as shown by the records being made by tiny boats in ocean crossings. But I’d certainly test out any boat you’re considering by going out in 5’+ seas and 30+ knots in different boats and appreciating how the boat (and you) handles things when conditions build. The 28’ boats I’ve been on start feeling miserable at 3’ seas and 20 knots whereas on the 36 those are just normal sailing days.