Am I biting off too much to chew?

[Briggers]

Originally Posted by Reel Love

This thread applies mostly to solo's, cruising couples or those of you who have owned/cruised a mono-hull vessels 45' or larger.

I am 65+, and power boated most of my life. I own a powerboat now and use her offshore a lot to fish. I know how to sail, but not well.

I spent 7 years sailing my Puzzle 36 round the islands in Croatia, much of the time single handed and most of the time on the hook - no mechanical or electric winch.

I am 75 and didn’t have any problems managing the sails or the anchor. The boat was light and easy to manage. Even on the 3,500 voyage from Croatia to Essex in the UK. Single handed most of the time, including the Bay of Biscay - no auto helm.

Two years ago, I stepped up to a Hunter 430, whilst I can manage the sails and manually haul the anchor, it’s an entirely different kettle of fish. At the moment I shall continue to sail single handed but when things start getting tricky I usually revert to the engine.

I would give serious consideration to stepping up to 50’+ if I were you.

Good lick with whatever you end up with.

[john manning]

No you are not.

How you sail a boat determines the size of your mouthful. If you have large sails you do not need to use all of them. Keeping a yacht reefed back to half power is a very relaxing way to sail.

Ann mentioned choosing lighter weight faster yachts. Some of these such as the Ovni range from Alubat and the Outre Mer catamarans are very seaworthy. The biggest advantage of these is not having to use all your sails to achieve the speeds others normally sail.

If you are used to being out at sea as opposed to in a harbour then when things go wrong you will be better at handling that situation. Sea time does not have to be on a yacht to gain valuable experience.

[AKA-None]

I admit to not reading everything here but my opinion, worth all you paid for it, is to learn for a bit on the smallest boat you can fit in or on.

If you are planning on sailing a monohull with minimal experience then a tiny skiff will very quickly teach you about being over powered and how to read the boat, wind, and water. It shouldn’t take long to learn the basics that will serve you well on a larger boat.

[NormanMartin]

Big sailboats are not more fun to sail so they sit more than smaller sailboats.

The boat needs to be big enough to carry a dinghy on deck and no bigger.

The law of inverse proportions.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by NormanMartin

Big sailboats are not more fun to sail



.

I must disagree!! I love my Tartan 33. She is fun to sail, seeing the SOG flirting with hull speed is a hoot

But when I get to deliver a 50+ foot boat, and if the owner is aboard, getting those boats to their higher hull speed is a tad bigger hoot. The issue is a 50+ footer is a handful and really needs at least 1, ideally 2-3, competent crew.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by NormanMartin

Big sailboats are not more fun to sail so they sit more than smaller sailboats.

The boat needs to be big enough to carry a dinghy on deck and no bigger.

The law of inverse proportions.

We sail allot, being bigger allows us to sail in conditions smaller boats would find challenging. Being fast allows us to sail more miles in lighter wind then smaller boats.

We do store a 13' AB with a 25 Yamaha on the fore deck.

Some boats get sailed, others don't. I believe it's more about the sailor then the boat.

[NormanMartin]

Joli and Snore:

I am misunderstood. Allow me to clarify.

I think of "bigger boats" as those over 12 meters/40 feet. As a pro captain I sail 45 -50 footers a lot and feel there is a big leap in work required as length and associated displacement increase over the 40 ft length.

My boat was (I just sold her) a 33 ft 6k lb sloop that was a breeze to own and operate. Low equipment costs, too! I spent many years running a 38 footer, often with few crew or no crew. A good upper limit, I think.

When a junior woodchuck the old-timers held that a max size for cruising was 2,000 sq ft of sail on two masts and 20,000 lbs of displacement. After that, the boat was too big. The anchors were too heavy, dock fender too heavy, a person can't fend off, the sails are heavy and the costs are burdensome.

I love the Tartan 33! So many great North American builds in lengths to 38 ft that are ideal for a cruising couple.

Final note. During my years in Caribbean and New England, more big boat owners are found at the beach bar planning to cruise and most smaller boat cruisers are found having returned from a cruise.

Norm

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by NormanMartin

Final note. During my years in Caribbean and New England, more big boat owners are found at the beach bar planning to cruise and most smaller boat cruisers are found having returned from a cruise.

Interesting comment. I’ve not sailed those areas but I can say with some confidence that when cruising in the South Pacific, my 44ft boat is often the smallest boat in the anchorage/marina. Never used to be but I believe these days cruising boats are getting bigger every year.

It’s actually quite rare, and a lot of sailors think it’s “quaint” when a 30ft boat sails into an anchorage. At least it is where I cruise.

[DefinitelyMe]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

Interesting comment. I’ve not sailed those areas but I can say with some confidence that when cruising in the South Pacific, my 44ft boat is often the smallest boat in the anchorage/marina. Never used to be but I believe these days cruising boats are getting bigger every year.

It’s actually quite rare, and a lot of sailors think it’s “quaint” when a 30ft boat sails into an anchorage. At least it is where I cruise.

Interesting. Where are you cruising in the SP? I think that might have something to do with it. Societies? Fiji?

We are 36' and through the SP we were around the 35th percentile. I'd have said 44' was about average or even a touch above. But we were often in less-frequented places and I think boats might be smaller there. We had friends in boats as small as 26' and many around 32'. This was 3 years ago.

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by DefinitelyMe

Interesting. Where are you cruising in the SP? I think that might have something to do with it. Societies? Fiji?

We are 36' and through the SP we were around the 35th percentile. I'd have said 44' was about average or even a touch above. But we were often in less-frequented places and I think boats might be smaller there. We had friends in boats as small as 26' and many around 32'. This was 3 years ago.

Yeah, mostly Fiji. In Vuda Marina for example it’s quite unusual to see 30ft boats. They’re normally jammed in between bigger boats.

[DefinitelyMe]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

Yeah, mostly Fiji. In Vuda Marina for example it’s quite unusual to see 30ft boats. They’re normally jammed in between bigger boats.

Yes I think that fits with what we saw, but I don't think it's representative of the general SP scene. Tend to get bigger boats in Fiji, the Society Islands, Tonga, Samoa etc. and smaller in places like the Gambier Islands, Eastern Tuamotus, Northern Cooks and out-of-season Marquesas. I wouldn't expect to see 30-footers in marinas but they are there somewhere I think. Maybe hanging around the Lau Group?

There's a definite relationship between size and comfort but I don't think anyone should feel put off by having a relatively small boat. Mind you, my wife says the next time we cruise the SP she wants a 55' solar-powered motor cat. :-)

[Joli]

Originally Posted by NormanMartin

Joli and Snore:

I am misunderstood. Allow me to clarify.

I think of "bigger boats" as those over 12 meters/40 feet. As a pro captain I sail 45 -50 footers a lot and feel there is a big leap in work required as length and associated displacement increase over the 40 ft length.

My boat was (I just sold her) a 33 ft 6k lb sloop that was a breeze to own and operate. Low equipment costs, too! I spent many years running a 38 footer, often with few crew or no crew. A good upper limit, I think.

When a junior woodchuck the old-timers held that a max size for cruising was 2,000 sq ft of sail on two masts and 20,000 lbs of displacement. After that, the boat was too big. The anchors were too heavy, dock fender too heavy, a person can't fend off, the sails are heavy and the costs are burdensome.

I love the Tartan 33! So many great North American builds in lengths to 38 ft that are ideal for a cruising couple.

Final note. During my years in Caribbean and New England, more big boat owners are found at the beach bar planning to cruise and most smaller boat cruisers are found having returned from a cruise.

Norm

Sailing a big boat with higher loads requires forethought because you cannot manhandle things. Mechanical advantages are needed for most/all maneuvers. You don't fend off a 60,000# boat, you need a good electric or hydraulic windlass to retrieve the anchor and electric winches are nice to have. I consider roller furling for headsails basically bullet proof if maintained properly, slab reefing for mainsails is the same if you have a good recirculating ball system to minimize luff friction.

We've enjoyed racing all kinds of boats over the past 50 years. Everything from centerboard dinghy's to our current 61' boat. Deciding to sail regularly had little to do with boat size, we've simply enjoyed sailing.

Over the past 20 months we've sailed from the Great Lakes, out the St Lawrence down the East Coast and back and forth from the Caribbean twice. The size of the boat had little to do with this, the fact that we're now retired allowed us more time to do more miles.

[NormanMartin]

My preferences still are smaller boats where I can fend off and handle the gear without too much mechanical assistance. Just a personal preference.

I see yachts getting bigger each year. When I started working in the charter trade in earnest in the early 2000s, mooring balls in Norman Island Bight had a max limit of 60 ft and no one ever saw a 60 footer. A couple years ago, I was asked to deliver a 60 footer to the BVI because that's the size everyone wants. They sure are comfy.

Norm

Oh... I noticed an error in my quoted post. The rule of thumb in the old days for a comfortable sailing yacht was 20,000 lbs of displacement and 1,000 sq feet of sail. The Bermuda 40 was considered ideal. How things have changed!

[Paul Reading]

Here are a few thoughts.

We had a 40 foot sailing boat without a bow thruster. I could single hand it anywhere and it was very safe even in storm conditions.

I now have a 55' boat and this too I can single hand... but I need someone to take the lines when docking if I am being blown off the dock.

The main differences are not what you expect. The 55' is easier to sail because the winches are all electric. The 55' has a bow thruster which makes docking a piece of cake once you have learned the technique. Journey times are much shorter with the 55' footer which massively reduces fatigue and also means you can get in quickly if things blow up.

The bad news is that when things go wrong the loads on the 55' are massive and I mean 2-3 times as big as the 40'. last week we had the shackle holding the head of our genoa snap and the sail went over the side. Getting it back on board required two people, i can't say if i could have retrieved the sail on the 40' on my own but logic suggests it woudl be easier.

One of the things that has surprised me is that it is often easier to get a berth fo rthe 55' than a 40' because there is less competition for space. We usually call ahead so it has never been an issue.