40' Bluewater Cruiser Choice

[Likato]

Hi to all -

Just joined the forum and posted a comment on the Meets and Greets regarding my search for the right 40 BWC - I was advised to start that discussion here - in the Monohull Sailboats Forum where the monohull experts can help - so here is my comment:

Hello to all;

I just signed up after browsing this forum for the last couple of days -found a lot of very interesting and helpful information. I am currently searching for a 40' bluewater cruiser for me and my wife and I hope to get some helpful input from you. I am in SE Florida so the Bahamas and the Caribbean will be the first destinations and eventually followed by transatlantic crossings, and RTW....so....big decision pending - which boat?

(I have been sailing a time-share 37 Jeanneau for the last couple of years - that has been great for Biscayne Bay and coastal cruising - but I would not feel safe in a trans ocean cruise so therefore the search)

To be brief - I would prefer a 40 foot cutter, fiberglass, large aft cockpit, fin keel with skeg hung rudder. My budget is about $110k after any retrofit. I am not a fan of canoe sterns (Passport and Tayana - but might reconsider) and I don't want a small CC (Amel Sharki's only downside). I have my eye on some great boats but I would like to get some more info on the lesser known Albin Nimbus 42 and Avance 40 (S&S). Any input is greatly appreciated. I also read Nordic 40's have a "mast step deflection problem" - any additional info on that is welcome.

Well - just a brief intro. Look forward to participating in this forum.

Cheers.

[Richard Jordan]

I am not a fan of canoe sterns (Passport and Tayana - but might reconsider)

Just to be clear, Passports do not have canoe sterns. You probably meant Valiant.

Another thought: You will not find a yacht with the features of an Amel that is not a CC. What specifically do you prefer about an aft cockpit. Amels are unique, and you will not find nearly any of their features anywhere else (hard dodgers, SS tubular lifelines, watertight bulkheads...), so that is a troublesome preference.

Maybe you like French designs (Jeanneau, Amel). Check out Wauquiez...

[slap]

Originally Posted by jordanship

Just to be clear, Passports do not have canoe sterns. You probably meant Valiant.

The Passport 42 has a canoe stern.

[sneuman]

Originally Posted by Likato

Hi to all -

Just joined the forum and posted a comment on the Meets and Greets regarding my search for the right 40 BWC - I was advised to start that discussion here - in the Monohull Sailboats Forum where the monohull experts can help - so here is my comment:

Hello to all;

I just signed up after browsing this forum for the last couple of days -found a lot of very interesting and helpful information. I am currently searching for a 40' bluewater cruiser for me and my wife and I hope to get some helpful input from you. I am in SE Florida so the Bahamas and the Caribbean will be the first destinations and eventually followed by transatlantic crossings, and RTW....so....big decision pending - which boat?

(I have been sailing a time-share 37 Jeanneau for the last couple of years - that has been great for Biscayne Bay and coastal cruising - but I would not feel safe in a trans ocean cruise so therefore the search)

To be brief - I would prefer a 40 foot cutter, fiberglass, large aft cockpit, fin keel with skeg hung rudder. My budget is about $110k after any retrofit. I am not a fan of canoe sterns (Passport and Tayana - but might reconsider) and I don't want a small CC (Amel Sharki's only downside). I have my eye on some great boats but I would like to get some more info on the lesser known Albin Nimbus 42 and Avance 40 (S&S). Any input is greatly appreciated. I also read Nordic 40's have a "mast step deflection problem" - any additional info on that is welcome.

Well - just a brief intro. Look forward to participating in this forum.

Cheers.

I think the Valiant 40 is among the best choices within your parameters, save for she has a canoe stern - which I find appealing. What can I say? Some guys like a shapely transom and some don't.

[Richard Jordan]

Originally Posted by slap

The Passport 42 has a canoe stern.

You're right! That is the old 42...my mistake.

[Curmudgeon]

In that price range, the first two boats on my list would be the Wauquiez Hood 38.8 and the Valiant 40 (notwithstanding the canoe stern). The Kadey Krogen 38 and Cape Dory Intrepid would also be on my radar.

The Wauquiez Hood is not a cutter, but it is certainly a blue water boat.

[Likato]

Thanks for the replies - the Wauquiez is on my radar. I am not necessarily leaning to french built, but the Wauquiez and the Amel are BWCs. I don't think Jeanneau falls in the same category. Also have a Pearson 424, Nordic 40 on the radar, but I would like some info on the Albin Nimbus 42 and the Avance 40 - any thoughts?
Don't like CCs on a 40 - too small, and I like a large aft cockpit for company in the warm Caribbean. Yeah - the transom shape is an issue of taste in my case. I know shapely canoe sterns can be attractive and are great in BW, but I seem to be attracted to the flat transom (and the Passport 40 may not be canoe stern but it is a rounded transom) - but taste may change.
Thanks again....but please - Albin Nimbus 42? Avance 40? what do you think?

[Curmudgeon]

Well, I see that there is an Avance 40 for sale in Seattle for 119K. The broker calls it a poor man's Swan-- S&S design, Scandinavian built, draft under 5' with the board up--so how bad can it be? It's certainly worth a look if you are in the area.

[barnakiel]

I do not think the boats you mentioned are blue water cruising boats, whatever that could mean. (I do like both designs though, but read on).

40' is already a lotta boat, at least to me (I am 6' tall and pretty athletic and still pretty young for a cruiser), and I do not think I will not be any younger nor stronger in the nearest future.

So, I would definitely look for a boat DESIGNED as a cruising thing, not an IOR knock-off sold as a cruiser. A boat where the size and layout of equipment have been DESIGNED to be manned with minimum effort at maximum safety and efficiency.

A Valiant 40 is a good starting point, even if only to get the idea of what the cruising design was believed at that time. If your skills and capabilities are high enough to handle more, make bigger and bigger circles until you find the right tool. But if it happens to be a Class 40 boat, then you probably have to go back to square A1.

Cheers,
barnie

[savoir]

Until reading this thread I had never even heard of the Avance 40. It sure is similar to a Swan. If it is rigged like a Swan then there will be mountings for an inner forestay on both the mast and deck. Get some wire made up and fix a staysail furler to it.

True cutters are hard to come by so you may have to settle for a cutter rigged sloop.

[Likato]

These are all very helpful comments. It's true that BWC may be a subjective term in my case....so like most of us I am rationalizing trade-offs in the specs. I have concluded that I would like: a hull with a full fin and skeg hung rudder (for good tracking, heave-to capabilities, and to avoid losing the rudder in a collision) - good shape - not a total displacement hog that will barely tug along; a masthead or fractional rig with two headsails - decent SA/D in the 17 to 20 range; a decent size cockpit for occasions when we do sail with company; 40 feet because it is comfortable and easily manageable by 2 and can accomodate more; <$100K cause that's my budget -
We shall see - the search is on and the threads on this site are a tremendous help.

[CaptainBW]

My wife and I are on the same cruising plan you described and after a long period of search and research we have narrowed our search to boats with the following attributes:

1. Full keel - slower, not as easy to maneuver under power, but stable in heavy seas and able to heave to.
2. Skeg rudder
3. 38' to 44'
4. Draft of 5' max - for ICW and Bahamas this is important.
5. Sacrifice some speed for stability and comfort at sea.
6. Good quality build and good support from the builder.

We have looked at many types of boats and seem to be gravitating toward Island Packet and Caliber, the IP 40 and Caliber 40 LRC in particular. IPs are more pricey but I think you could find a good boat in your price range in either line.

I would rethink the fin keel requirement and go toward a full keel based on your intended use and other requirements.

Valient is a good choice but draft could be an issue (if that is a key criteria) as well as blister problems on some model years. I also found the companionway to be very awkward to maneuver, especially when carrying something.

Hope that helps! Enjoy your search.

[Anzo]

I rather doubt you'll find any Amels or Valiants for $110k after a refit. I'd take a long look at a well put together aft-cockpit Corbin cutter. They can be had for less than 100k. But you'd need a good surveyor, as most were owner finished

[barnakiel]

Owner finished - well ...

Unless one has plenty of experience and some understanding of boat design, I would always say a boat from a quality builder is the way to go.

Not to say owner finished cannot be good, only meaning I have seen so few that were good and so many that were not.

b.

[goboatingnow]

I don't think Jeanneau falls in the same category

why not there well out together and many many have done ocean crossings, I delivered a Jeanneau 42 DS through a big altantic storm and the boat was well up to it.

dave