Time to face the music

[Cap Morgan]

I’m interested in frank(but nice ), honest feedback regarding a plan that I am working on with my sailboat so where else would I go but to my Buds at CF.

I retired early from the rat race Corporate World to take an entirely different path in life which includes moving to Portugal, a country that my wife and I fell in love with. Bottom line is we’re moving there from Miami FL. and are currently in the process of acquiring residency. As part of my future plans I purchased a 1980 CAL 39 which I would like to sail across the Atlantic to our new home (Wife’s flying). The plan is to get one crew member or one for each leg (Bermuda, Horta, Portugal mainland). I purchased this particular boat because it has great bones and fit my budget knowing fully well that a 41 year old boat will require a significant amount of work to turn her into a machine in which I can have complete confidence. I purchased her for 37k and have so far put somewhere in the vicinity of 27k in which includes 2 haulouts. I am now planning a 3rd haulout in which I plan to: pull mast to inspect footer; paint and rewire mast; drop rudder and service; install wind vane self steering; install water maker; thoroughly check seacocks and through hulls; install new transmission mounts on Perkins plus several other upgrades. In all I’m estimating another 27k to get her to the point where I’ll have a rather special boat that I’d like to sail to Portugal and beyond. If all goes well returning across the pond, sailing the Caribbean, and perhaps working my way over to the Pacific in 5 years or so and sailing across that. Perhaps I won’t circumnavigate but I’d like to spend as much of the time I have left on this earth on the water.

Besides all that I plan on doing WITH this boat that I’d like to have your feedback I’d also like to hear from those who have specific knowledge of taking a boat that I already own from the US to Portugal. So far I’ve read some pretty daunting writings on that topic. As far as I know I should not need to pay VAT, but is that a correct assumption? I understand that the Portuguese authorities make their own valuation on which VAT and other fees are based. The boat must be inspected for CE compliance then given a CE mark. I’m certain that there are indeed other considerations. As such I am laying out the cards with the hope of attracting some really useful feedback.

For those who like bullet point writing, sorry for the long story but I like to write in my language. Your feedback is truly appreciated.

Ducking!!!!

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Cap Morgan

I’m interested in frank(but nice ), honest feedback regarding a plan that I am working on with my sailboat so where else would I go but to my Buds at CF.

I retired early from the rat race Corporate World to take an entirely different path in life which includes moving to Portugal, a country that my wife and I fell in love with. Bottom line is we’re moving there from Miami FL. and are currently in the process of acquiring residency. As part of my future plans I purchased a 1980 CAL 39 which I would like to sail across the Atlantic to our new home (Wife’s flying). The plan is to get one crew member or one for each leg (Bermuda, Horta, Portugal mainland). I purchased this particular boat because it has great bones and fit my budget knowing fully well that a 41 year old boat will require a significant amount of work to turn her into a machine in which I can have complete confidence. I purchased her for 37k and have so far put somewhere in the vicinity of 27k in which includes 2 haulouts. I am now planning a 3rd haulout in which I plan to: pull mast to inspect footer; paint and rewire mast; drop rudder and service; install wind vane self steering; install water maker; thoroughly check seacocks and through hulls; install new transmission mounts on Perkins plus several other upgrades. In all I’m estimating another 27k to get her to the point where I’ll have a rather special boat that I’d like to sail to Portugal and beyond. If all goes well returning across the pond, sailing the Caribbean, and perhaps working my way over to the Pacific in 5 years or so and sailing across that. Perhaps I won’t circumnavigate but I’d like to spend as much of the time I have left on this earth on the water.

Besides all that I plan on doing WITH this boat that I’d like to have your feedback I’d also like to hear from those who have specific knowledge of taking a boat that I already own from the US to Portugal. So far I’ve read some pretty daunting writings on that topic. As far as I know I should not need to pay VAT, but is that a correct assumption? I understand that the Portuguese authorities make their own valuation on which VAT and other fees are based. The boat must be inspected for CE compliance then given a CE mark. I’m certain that there are indeed other considerations. As such I am laying out the cards with the hope of attracting some really useful feedback.

For those who like bullet point writing, sorry for the long story but I like to write in my language. Your feedback is truly appreciated.

Ducking!!!!

That is a nice choice of a sailboat (I assume by the date it is a Cal 39 MkII). My first extended sailing experience in the Caribbean was on one of these boats.

I did not see any mention of sails or rigging in your post.

You should have the sails examined and you might need new sails depending on how old the existing sails are and their condition. Be sure you have a very good mainsail with three reefs and a small headsail. You will be crossing an ocean not known for light wind.

Since you are having the mast off I'd recommend new standing rigging since your plans include extensive future ocean sailing.

Be sure to thoroughly service the roller furling while it is off.

Other maintenance which will be needed include winch servicing, inspection and replacement if necessary sheets, reefing lines, and halyards.

For safe ocean crossing you will need excellent safety equipment including life jackets, harnesses, and a life raft. Consider how you will receive and analyze weather information including routing.

You don't mention electronics but that is easier these days with inexpensive tablet based or PC based navigation applications. Redundancy is the keyword here along with familiarity of use. Battery charging is something to consider, as are the condition of the batteries.

Finally, I don't know your skill level or sailing experience but I'd think that unless you have some solid offshore experience you would be wise to plan some shorter trips first to gain experience and shake down the vessel and include a plan for afterwards to get the boat back into a yard or repair facility so needed fixes or updates can be performed if necessary.

Vet your crew carefully since you plan on sailing with only two persons, seasickness in either will make the trip unpleasant if not dangerous and remember that we are all playing for keeps when we go to sea in a small boat. It is serious

Good luck.

[psk125]

Friend of ours did a lot of cruising in her Cal39, including some Trans-Atlantics, so the boat is up to it. Some online discussions say getting CE compliance can be a major hurdle. Checking with the Portuguese authorities and getting something in writing from them might be a good idea. With solar panels and low-draw autopilots, many people are finding wind-vane self-steering less attractive. Vane setups can be damaged in storms and may not work well in light-air.

[JPA Cate]

We sailed on the order of 135,000 n. mi. with a windvane. So, if you want a silent, no electric power draw auto"pilot" that can survive a lightning strike, the windvane can be your friend. They don't sail as narrow a bandwidth as an electronic autopilot, but the will sail a more or less accurate compass course, adequate, depending on how diligent one is about correcting for wind direction changes.

Ann

[RaymondR]

If they are going to VAT assess it I would concentrate on things like hull integrity, rig,sail and engine and leave the making it nice until after you import it. I might even go so far as to make it ugly as I could if it was likely to beneficially affect the VAT valuation.

[goboatingnow]

If you are moving to a new home in the EU , you can avail of the EU TOR procedure (“
Transfer of Residence “ ) and bring ALL your personal possessions with you VAT free. That includes the boat.

With the savings you can pay fir a post construction CE assessment. Contact a RCD approved “
Notified body “ in any European country and they will know the procedure.

I would strongly advice getting it CE marked unless you never intend selling it in Europe. If not , don’t bother as no one checks anyway. ( make sure your insurers are happy )

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by psk125

With solar panels and low-draw autopilots, many people are finding wind-vane self-steering less attractive. Vane setups can be damaged in storms and may not work well in light-air.

This! I know there are an awful lot of conservative minded traditionalists who would disagree with this. But we just had drinks the other day in Newfoundland with a French couple who took their 30 ft boat (aluminum, of course!) from France to South America and up to Canada over the last few years. I commented on the lack of a wind vane. He replied that he put in a below decks autopilot rated for a significantly larger boat, and found it worked flawlessly. They don't even have refrigeration, but they are autopilot believers. I was a bit surprised, because the solar did not look like more than maybe 200 or 300 watts.

[SV Tom Crean]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

..snip.. He replied that he put in a below decks autopilot rated for a significantly larger boat, and found it worked flawlessly. They don't even have refrigeration, but they are autopilot believers. I was a bit surprised, because the solar did not look like more than maybe 200 or 300 watts.

Yes. I mentioned this on another thread (maybe the bavaria/aka blue water…) that many owners and especially production builders put under sized auto pilots on boats and then wonder why they fail or why they consume so much power. A bigger AP will struggle less, keep,the course more accurate and at the same time use less power to do it and less prone to mechanical failure.

It can be done with AP alone but make sure you have a backup - crews get very tired very quickly if they have to hand steer for long.

[Anders]

As an EU resident you can't legally have a non VAT paid boat. It's either paying the VAT or transfer of residence. Make sure you are aware of the rules for transfer of residence.
Done bother with CE compliance. No-one checks and the assessment is very expensive and on an old American boat there is likely to be some changes required.

[Celestialsailor]

Cap Morgan...I like your plan. Well thought out and it seems you are humble enough to ask for opinions. I almost bought a Cal 39 MkII in Southern Ca. But the broker was impossible to work with and I had to pass. I'm wondering if yours is the shoal draft or deeper? anyways, good choice as the don't break the bank and a lot of boat for the buck. The one thing I will mention about the Cal 39 rudder placement and windvanes. The rudder location on the 39 is right at the stern of the boat and Cal 39's are relatively fast leaving unsettled water in its wake. With the raked transom, ones tendency is to get the vane as close as possible to the bottom of the transom. If it is a Monitor with a 90 degree vertical vane, puts the water oar right in the disturbed water. This greatly effects the vanes performance. However, if you use the windvanes that angle back (maybe 30 degrees) the effect is minimized. Windpilot and Sailomat come to mind but Sailomat is not a good choice in regards to customer service. Being a Toolmaker/Machinist, I made my own parts for my 601 model. IMHO, you will be grateful having both electronic and windvane for the distances you plan on doing now and in the future. It's not a matter of if an autopiot fails but when. A windvane helps to extend the life of the autopilot especially considering a windvane works better as the wind increases and an autopilot last longer in light airs where ther is not a great load on it.

There is a member on CF that is from Portugal and delivers boats for a living. He would be a good source. His name is Boatman61. He might have some logistic information for you.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Cap Morgan...I The one thing I will mention about the Cal 39 rudder placement and windvanes. The rudder location on the 39 is right at the stern of the boat and Cal 39's are relatively fast leaving unsettled water in its wake. With the raked transom, ones tendency is to get the vane as close as possible to the bottom of the transom. If it is a Monitor with a 90 degree vertical vane, puts the water oar right in the disturbed water. This greatly effects the vane's performance

Celestialsailor, That is an interesting observation however with our Serendipity 43 and a monitor wind vane we did not experience those issues. In lighter winds the powerful rudder of the boat does not make a great deal of water disturbance and the wind vane easily controls the boat with very small deflections.

In heavier air the wind vane oar develops a great deal of force, even though there may be some disturbance in the wake from the main rudder, it does not seem to reduce either the power or the accuracy of the windvane oar.

Once a big deflection is called for the oar has swung wide of any wake disturbance and it's power become irresistible. However if the boat is badly balanced the windvane oar may stall and not apply the full correction to the ships rudder. It may not make the desired correction as quickly, however this is rare. Good balance in the sail plan helps greatly to allow the wind vane to steer the boat on a straight course without stalling the oar.

On a Cal39 using a monitor longer lower tubes will be required to get the vane oar back from the trailing edge of the rudder. However, the long tubes (upper and lower) do offer a mitigation opportunity: We mounted a wooden deck on our windvane which is almost like a back porch; very handy. Addition of the Monitor supplied diagonal bracing may be needed.

I am not sure about other windvane types but I think a Monitor will work nicely on OP's Cal39 MkII

[wingssail]

While I am at it, not to take change this thread to a different topic, but I'd like to highlight an implication of our experiences with a windvane on our fin keel/spade rudder sloop.

If a small Monitor Windvane can keep a powerful sloop on course what does that say about the directional stability of a fin keel/spade rudder sailboat?

It has been said quite often that fin keel/spade rudder boats make poor cruising boats because they don't track as well as a full keel boat.

My opinion, backed up by a few sea miles on a fin keel/spade rudder boat, is that there is a smidgen of truth in those statements: A full keel boat will track somewhat better; in flat water and light winds but autopilots or windvanes easily compensate for that if the rudder works well.

BUT, all boats will be thrown off course in large waves because the surface of the water is moving. If the water you're in in moves your vessel will move accordingly, hence you will be off course. And once you are off course the wind will take over and try to force you further. It may try to round you up.

That is where a powerful spade rudder, mounted far aft of the keel, will be an advantage. It has vastly greater leverage than a rudder hung on the back edge of the keel. It can quickly put the boat back on course. And because it is balanced it takes less effort to turn it.

This becomes apparent when we watch a fin keel/spade rudder steer in heavy winds with a wind vane. They handle it beautifully. As shown in the drawing above the wind vane oar is quite small, yet it can easily deliver deflections to the main rudder sufficient to keep a boat on course without extreme yawing. The purpose of the keel on a sailing yacht is to resist sideways (leeway) motion, not to supplant the rudder and keep us going straight. That is the job of the rudder. A fin resists leeway better than a full keel and the rudder has to keep you on course.

Imagine this thought exercise: If you are standing with your feet together and a friend grabs you by the shoulders and tries to twist you, you automatically move your feet apart to better resist that twisting. A fin keel/spade rudder yacht comes with it's feet already widely spread.

Let's discard that myth about full keels tracking better; it's a myth.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Celestialsailor, That is an interesting observation however with our Serendipity 43 and a monitor wind vane we did not experience those issues. In lighter winds the powerful rudder of the boat does not make a great deal of water disturbance and the wind vane easily controls the boat with very small deflections.

In heavier air the wind vane oar develops a great deal of force, even though there may be some disturbance in the wake from the main rudder, it does not seem to reduce either the power or the accuracy of the windvane oar.

Once a big deflection is called for the oar has swung wide of any wake disturbance and it's power become irresistible. However if the boat is badly balanced the windvane oar may stall and not apply the full correction to the ships rudder. It may not make the desired correction as quickly, however this is rare. Good balance in the sail plan helps greatly to allow the wind vane to steer the boat on a straight course without stalling the oar.

On a Cal39 using a monitor longer lower tubes will be required to get the vane oar back from the trailing edge of the rudder. However, the long tubes (upper and lower) do offer a mitigation opportunity: We mounted a wooden deck on our windvane which is almost like a back porch; very handy. Addition of the Monitor supplied diagonal bracing may be needed.

I am not sure about other windvane types but I think a Monitor will work nicely on OP's Cal39 MkII

My aforementioned observation was my Ingrid 38 with its stern mounted rudder and a monitor. I could see the oar reacting to the turbulence and f that arm door. So maybe because that rudder is flat and turbulates more.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

My aforementioned observation was my Ingrid 38 with its stern mounted rudder and a monitor. I could see the oar reacting to the turbulence and f that arm door. So maybe because that rudder is flat and turbulates more.

Ok, I think in that case the long keel is tracking too well. The rudder is trying to turn the boat but the boat is trying to go straight ahead. That makes turbulence I guess.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Ok, I think in that case the long keel is tracking too well. The rudder is trying to turn the boat but the boat is trying to go straight ahead. That makes turbulence I guess.

You might be right but I could look over the end of the stern and see it slightly shacking. I assumed it was the disrupted flow of the water.

I picked up a cheap Windpilot in the classifieds here and in the (slow) process of rebuilding it. I bought it for my Westsail 28 but since I will end up flipping it, I will use it on my Pearson 365. This will be the first time adapting one to wheel steering. Hope that goes ok. The Pearson has a longish fin keel and a large skeg/rudder. It sure is easier to dock than the Ingrid.