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Old 02-05-2018, 11:05   #16
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Re: Self Steering Off Shore

It is certain to me that someone is going to call this posting I make to-day Off topic...BUT! I write to make a philosophical point that on certain subjects; especially electricity and for those of us who have never really pushed it out there enough to need self steering...Please further include Newbies on other subjects...we come here to learn.

(taking note in this case that it seems several self steering systems use electricity)

So could at least some or all of these experts consider avoiding the use of Acronyms? or at least explain them at the point that you first introduce them into your text?

There was a grammatical fashion back in the 1700.s to include French words interjected into the English language to impress ones intellectual peers: just to show how educated and smart you were.

So is this obsession with using Acronyms motivation similar? or just too lazy to type it out? or just trying to be contemporary Hip in keeping with the assumption that no body likes to read long text anymore? Or just an assumption that everyone knows what you are talking about? and has lots of spare time to spend on Google trying to look it up?
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Old 02-05-2018, 11:24   #17
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Re: Self Steering Off Shore

The below deck Raymarine is much more that $5K. The unit alone is about $6K plus mounting deck and you will need to add a "black box" conversion assuming you have the older version Sea Talk. I just finished putting one in and all in it was just over $11K but a fantastic piece of kit.
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Old 02-05-2018, 11:25   #18
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Re: Self Steering Off Shore

I have the ST 4000 and Hydrovane. The Hydrovane is the workhorse that got me from Mexico to Hawaii. I wouldn’t go without a wind vane.
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Old 02-05-2018, 11:40   #19
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Re: Self Steering Off Shore

Quote:
Originally Posted by coastalexplorer View Post
So could at least some or all of these experts consider avoiding the use of Acronyms? or at least explain them at the point that you first introduce them into your text?

There was a grammatical fashion back in the 1700.s to include French words interjected into the English language to impress ones intellectual peers: just to show how educated and smart you were.

So is this obsession with using Acronyms motivation similar? or just too lazy to type it out? or just trying to be contemporary Hip in keeping with the assumption that no body likes to read long text anymore? Or just an assumption that everyone knows what you are talking about? and has lots of spare time to spend on Google trying to look it up?
To which acronyms are you referring? I scanned this thread and saw "AP", which stands for "Auto Pilot". Were there others?

On some of the other threads we have gotten deep into wind, course, speed where we use AWS, AWA, TWS, TWA, TWD, STW, SOG, HDG, COG, and no doubt a few others. We use these because they are much easier to type and read, and in many cases we define them before we use them (at least I try to). The electrical threads have their own set of abbreviations and acronyms: A, Ah, W, Wh, V, VA, etc. Again, these acronyms are standard in the domain, and are used for convenience and comprehension.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I suggest that if an acronym hasn't been defined in-thread that you look it up. The ones I mentioned are quite common, and you will see them used again and again. Feel free to ask for clarification here. Some of us love to pontificate on these topics.
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Old 02-05-2018, 12:19   #20
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Re: Self Steering Off Shore

Buy yourself a Monitor as recommended above.
Check out Scanmar Marine history. Email Suzy at Scanmar she will put you right.
Niah Vaughan 94/95 BOC Around Alone UK to Cape Horn and back and 14 times across the Atlantic.
I am looking at a Fisher 30 this week to hopefully buy and she will be having a Monitor fitted.
Take Care and Enjoy
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Old 02-05-2018, 12:25   #21
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Re: Self Steering Off Shore

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Originally Posted by coastalexplorer View Post
There was a grammatical fashion back in the 1700.s to include French words interjected into the English language to impress
Oui monsieur.

In additiion to Pauls list of abbreviations I have gone back over the thread to add the full text; I as I know it in blue.

Regards

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Old 02-05-2018, 12:30   #22
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Re: Self Steering Off Shore

Cape Horn wind vane you can’t beat it
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Old 02-05-2018, 12:32   #23
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Re: Self Steering Off Shore

Oh and I am looking for a second hand Monitor!!!!!!
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Old 02-05-2018, 13:16   #24
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Re: Self Steering Off Shore

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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
I would point out also that in my opinion, you are getting very good advice so far.
Ditto!

I think both your plans are fine. Wind vane is a really nice thing to have on long ocean passages -- no power required, nothing to break -- I love them. Some of them even give you a backup rudder, a huge plus for ocean sailing.

Wheel pilot sometimes does a surprisingly good job, especially on a boat with a balanced or semi-balanced rudder (what do you have?).

Both is great.

A powerful hydraulic pilot is also a nice thing -- that's what I have, and I've done tens of thousands of miles with it in all kinds of weather without any significant problems.

But if I were you, I would probably add the wind vane whether or not you change the autopilot.

By the way, a below decks pilot need not cost as much as $5000. They are all (AFAIK) made by Hy Pro, and instead of paying the huge markup to Raymarine or Navico or Furuno, you can buy directly from them (or through their discount dealer JGTech in Weymouth). A complete Hy Pro pilot (equivalent to the original Type III Raymarine) costs less than $1500 (ex VAT) -- pump, ram, clutch, reservoir. You just need to install it.

That's for a 20 tonne, 54' boat. There are two smaller (and cheaper) models for smaller boats. I bet it's cheaper than a wind vane.

But wind vanes are great and I would have one of those in any case, if I were you.
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Old 02-05-2018, 15:35   #25
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Re: Self Steering Off Shore

Cher Monsieur le original poster,

Here’s my opinion different pour your further edification. I think wind vanes are beacoup expensive and rely on an adequately sized AP (pilote automatique) myself plus solar to power it. Should it go to caca, then I’ll rig “sail to tiller” self-steering, which I’ve already had to do to cross the Atlantic, and which costs about $30 in bits and parts which you probably already have laying around anyway. It’s also beacoup more reliable and precis than many windvanes if I can believe the complaintes I read about beacoup of those.

Meilleures salutations,

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Old 02-05-2018, 15:45   #26
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Re: Self Steering Off Shore

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Originally Posted by Minggat View Post
I have the ST 4000 and Hydrovane. The Hydrovane is the workhorse that got me from Mexico to Hawaii. I wouldn’t go without a wind vane.
Hi! We should also remind future offshore sailors, that Hydrovane is a stand alone rudder & if your main rudder gets damaged, you can steer your sailboat using the Hydrovane alone
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Old 02-05-2018, 16:17   #27
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Re: Self Steering Off Shore

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Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Oui monsieur.

In additiion to Pauls list of abbreviations I have gone back over the thread to add the full text; I as I know it in blue.

Regards

Pete
Bravo! Perhaps we should post a sticky list of appropriate AADs (Acronym And Definition). Those TLAs (Three Letter Acronym) can get confusing!
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Old 02-05-2018, 16:32   #28
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Re: Self Steering Off Shore

In short if you're going to cross an ocean where conserving fuel is an issue, or are going to regularly make long passages with limited fuel, consider a wind vane. If you're not, just get a beefy autopilot and run the engine to charge as necessary. It would take a a circumnavigation or more to recoup the cost of the wind vane in fuel costs.

Yes, there is something magical about wind vanes (I have one and I love it), but they are expensive and can impact a lot of other considerations, such as whether you can use davits or what you can hang off the stern of your boat.
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Old 02-05-2018, 18:05   #29
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Re: Self Steering Off Shore

My boat (a 1974 Tartan 41ft) came with an ST4000 wheel pilot. I was in your shoes. I choose to build a custom servo pendulum rudder pilot driven from an ST1000 tiller pilot... but an off the shelf wind vane would do fine. I like this method because it provides some redundancy and was also much cheaper and easier to accomplish than the below deck ram... My servo rudder system with the new ST1000 was under $1k total. some assembly required!
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Old 02-05-2018, 18:41   #30
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Re: Self Steering Off Shore

I have had boats with various combinations. Definitely a vane for Bluewater at least. I have had a Hydrovane on 2 boats and it worked very well. Best to have both an AP and windvane if finances allow. The windvane struggles with spinnaker work due to light winds and apparent wind issues. It also does not have enough steering effort for a spinnaker. Use your 4000 for motoring and very light conditions and vane for other. The Hydrovane can also be fitted with AP controlling the tiller.

Good luck
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