Sailing New England to Australia in February

[exMaggieDrum]

Just got this from my subscription to gCaptain. Not very flattering.

Australian Lunatics Narrowly Avert Death Off Nantucket - gCaptain Maritime & Offshore News

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by soverel

Exile

The coasties can do alot...and they could have stopped it...at time of boarding it wasnt rough though. Thats the reason i guess they did not stop it at that time. I think they should have said that no rescue attempt would be made in storm conditions. It might have let the two of them think a bit more of their decision to leave at that time. As i posted previously I and many others have been told that by coast guard prior to a storm.

he Coast Guard can terminate a voyage if they feel a boat is being operated in an unsafe condition or if an especially hazardous condition exists. You may be directed to port or told to immediately correct the hazardous situation. Your voyage may be terminated if it is declared a "Manifestly Unsafe Voyage" - the catchall that can be used whenever the Coast Guard feels you are operating in an unsafe manner.

An operator who refuses to terminate the unsafe use of a vessel can be cited for failure to comply with the directions of a Coast Guard officer. Violators may be fined up to $1,000, imprisoned for one year, or both.

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I'm doubtful this is correct, though more than willing to see any legislation you can cite. Their may very well be an offence for disobeying a Coast Guard Officer, BUT, that instruction has to be a lawful instruction to begin with.

I doubt very much the Coast Guard has the authority to board a vessel let a lone terminate a passage due to weather.

I do believe it is true based on a scenario some years ago where two ladies panicked and set off an epirb and when coast guard evacuated insisted the skipper leave as well. But this was decided by the skipper to do so because if he failed to do so it would cause future problems in entering the US again by sail boat.

I'd be interested to know if this vessel was Australian Registered too, because if they did not register prior to leaving they were acting unlawfully under Australian Law, despite being in the US. Unless of course they registered the vessel as a US or other Nation yacht.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum

Just got this from my subscription to gCaptain. Not very flattering.

Australian Lunatics Narrowly Avert Death Off Nantucket - gCaptain Maritime & Offshore News

It's a blog! Surely we have seen more in local news reports.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by soverel

It is odd. He also said coast guard said the boat was seaworthy. I imagine he was boarded in an attempt to stop voyage as manifestly unsafe and got the routine safety inspection. If they had what was required no way to stop them legally.

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I think there is too much assuming and 'imagining'. The coast guard have not conceded any such inspections or recommendations at all and seemed in one report to be surprised at any suggestion they gave any ok to depart.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Exile

Yes, and I was thinking the same thing. Maybe Jason was confusing his basic liability insurance with hull coverage. Also find it hard to believe -- hull coverage or not -- that the insurance co. would have anything to do with any salvage effort, unless it's some sort of requirement that falls under the coverage for environmental hazards, etc.

Back here in Australia you don't need a Survey (inspection) to gain insurance with most insurers. Mine requires an inspection every two years for a boat that's 30 years old or older, but I'll be leaving them as soon as I can.

But, I can't see you getting any Australian insurance to cover a vessel from Outside Australia. Getting insurance to leave Australia's 200 mile limit is far beyond the cost of their boat, and does require a survey first.

So unless they managed to get insurance from the US to sail to Australia I'd seriously doubt they had any at all.

The other thing that can happen, which my insurance has warned me, if you have so much as a flare out of date, life raft etc, you can jeapodise your pay out in the light of a total loss.

[savoir]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

I'm doubtful this is correct, though more than willing to see any legislation you can cite. Their may very well be an offence for disobeying a Coast Guard Officer, BUT, that instruction has to be a lawful instruction to begin with.

I doubt very much the Coast Guard has the authority to board a vessel let a lone terminate a passage due to weather.

I do believe it is true based on a scenario some years ago where two ladies panicked and set off an epirb and when coast guard evacuated insisted the skipper leave as well. But this was decided by the skipper to do so because if he failed to do so it would cause future problems in entering the US again by sail boat.

I'd be interested to know if this vessel was Australian Registered too, because if they did not register prior to leaving they were acting unlawfully under Australian Law, despite being in the US. Unless of course they registered the vessel as a US or other Nation yacht.

Good luck with that one.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by savoir

Good luck with that one.

Like I said, I'm happy to be referred to any legislation that clarifys it.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by savoir

Good luck with that one.

Though, I just found this, which is pretty damn wide. We certainly don't have these powers in Australia.

The U.S. Coast Guard Boarding Policy:

Title 14 section 89 of the United States Code authorizes the U.S. Coast Guard to board vessels subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, anytime, any place upon the high seas and upon any waterway over which the United States has jurisdiction, to make inquires, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests. The U.S. Coast Guard does not require a warrant to conduct search, seizures, arrests over any United States Waterway or high seas. The U.S. Coast Guard also have full legal law enforcement power on any land under the control of the United States, as needed to complete any mission.
Sweeping powers. In a paper in the William and Mary Law Review, law scholar Greg Shelton says, “In terms of enforcement power, Coast Guard boarding officers are clearly America's "supercops."” Another law scholar, Megan Jaye Kight, says, "As such, these provisions comprise

[Rustic Charm]

And there is this one in relation to preventing unsafe trips

PROHIBITION TO SAIL -
MANIFESTLY UNSAFE VOYAGE

Under the authority of

46 United States Code 4302 and
4308, the Commandant, U. S. Coast Guard has authorized
the District Commander to prohibit the voyage of any
vessel if he determines that said craft is unsuitable for the
intended trip. His determination will be based upon the
design, condition and outfitting of the vessel in relation to
what the District Commander deems necessary for a safe
voyage. Operator competency is NOT a factor in the final
determination. If a manifestly unsafe ruling is issued, the
voyage is terminated and the vessel will be prevented from
getting underway. The person making the voyage may

appeal.

[savoir]

I have been boarded twice by the US Coast Guard.


They have loaded guns.


'Nuff said.


It's called gun rules. The guy with the most guns makes the rules.

[savoir]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

Though, I just found this, which is pretty damn wide. We certainly don't have these powers in Australia.

The U.S. Coast Guard Boarding Policy:

Title 14 section 89 of the United States Code authorizes the U.S. Coast Guard to board vessels subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, anytime, any place upon the high seas and upon any waterway over which the United States has jurisdiction, to make inquires, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests. The U.S. Coast Guard does not require a warrant to conduct search, seizures, arrests over any United States Waterway or high seas. The U.S. Coast Guard also have full legal law enforcement power on any land under the control of the United States, as needed to complete any mission.
Sweeping powers. In a paper in the William and Mary Law Review, law scholar Greg Shelton says, “In terms of enforcement power, Coast Guard boarding officers are clearly America's "supercops."” Another law scholar, Megan Jaye Kight, says, "As such, these provisions comprise

You most certainly do. Take a look at the Marine Safety (Domestic Commercial Vessel) National Law Act 2012 section 97. The guys authorized to board your boat can work for lots of agencies - federal cops, state cops, local port authority, state transport office so be careful who you challenge. You can also be boarded by customs and the navy.

[Kevin84]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

I'm doubtful this is correct, though more than willing to see any legislation you can cite. Their may very well be an offence for disobeying a Coast Guard Officer, BUT, that instruction has to be a lawful instruction to begin with.

I doubt very much the Coast Guard has the authority to board a vessel let a lone terminate a passage due to weather.

I do believe it is true based on a scenario some years ago where two ladies panicked and set off an epirb and when coast guard evacuated insisted the skipper leave as well. But this was decided by the skipper to do so because if he failed to do so it would cause future problems in entering the US again by sail boat.

I'd be interested to know if this vessel was Australian Registered too, because if they did not register prior to leaving they were acting unlawfully under Australian Law, despite being in the US. Unless of course they registered the vessel as a US or other Nation yacht.

And just as a further clarification, the Coast Guard's authority to order a voyage or vessel abandoned has been challenged in court. The USCG won. They most certainly can order any voyage halted and in extreme circumstances can order a vessel be abandoned.

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[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by savoir

You most certainly do. Take a look at the Marine Safety (Domestic Commercial Vessel) National Law Act 2012 section 97. The guys authorized to board your boat can work for lots of agencies - federal cops, state cops, local port authority, state transport office so be careful who you challenge. You can also be boarded by customs and the navy.

Hot diggy damn, hot off the press in 2013. Thanks Savior, your my saviour. I'll have to make sure I eat them cookies before going to sea.

[savoir]

If the relevant vessel in Australia is private recreational then boarding rights are controlled by state law. I could not be bothered looking them all up but in NSW it is the Marine safety Act 1998 section 115 :

" (1) For the purpose of conducting an investigation, an authorised officer may at any reasonable time:

(a) stop any vessel, and

(b) board any vessel, . . . . . . "

An authorized officer isn't just a cop. It can be lots of different people including port authority employees or state transport office employees.

The state transport minister also has the power to seize and hold unsafe vessels.

[Bill Seal]

The United States Coast Guard is a branch of the United States Armed Forces, has been around since 1790 or so, is involved with a lot more than Search and Rescue. Right now, they're part of Homeland Security, so if they board you, you better damn well say "Yes Sir". I think they are the only Armed Force authorized to board private vessels. I believe the High Endurance Cutters (about 350' or so) are armed with 3"50's to get the attention of the drug smugglers.
And as been posted, the motto is Semper Paratus, Always Ready/Prepared.
Former Coastie Bill.