Hostile acts against cruisers underway in the Caribbean

[billdomb]

Originally Posted by nolakennedys

Will pray for a safe passage for y'all! When I cruise to the Bahamas I am planning on being armed. Will declare properly of course. Just won't take any chances these days. Lower Caribbean i am still researching laws regarding it.

Check Bahamas regs carefully. Last time out they counted and registered all firearms. (MAX 3) and bullets. I think that might be 100 per firearm, but check.

[billdomb]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Bringing a gun to the Bahamas is about as useful as bringing ice skates.

And it's a royal pain in the neck. They insist on an exact count of the bullets on check-in. And will inspect that you have the same number when you check out. Only cruisers with guns have to go to customs to check out. Everyone else can just go home. And don't think of not checking out properly if you ever hope to come back to Bahamas.

Interesting. Been checking in with firearms for a number of years. NEVER any requirement or request to check OUT.

Once, we had four pieces with us, so they did require us to leave one while cruising and pick it up on the way back out, however.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by hlev00

Stay out of Nassau and you will be fine. Even Nassau is mostly okay. My wife and I hitchhiked on many of the islands, except New Providence, and whether picked up by tourists or locals it was always a wonderful and educational experience.

See this is how we thought it worked when we set off cruising in 2003. It didn’t last a year before we found out we were wrong.

Sometimes danger is not something you can avoid, like when it targets you wherever you are. I’ll give two examples:

1. We were in Grenada for hurricane season and life was good. Then hurricane Ivan hit, which should not have been possible as it was considered safe in Grenada at the time, and as the storm left the island, the shooting started. Looting boats, finding more weapons on them, fight war with other gangs over who gets to loot and rape etc. Civilization turns into a shtf situation quickly.

2. We were in Panama, San Blas islands. Guaranteed no hurricanes and no pirates. A friend was murdered by another sailor, so as to steal his boat and identity.

We -will- defend ourselves regardless of where we are and regardless of circumstance. As we are no ninjas, we are armed, with med kits, fire extinguishers, communications gear, and weapons.

[n3ord]

Originally Posted by On the rode

I plan to sail from Colon, Panama to Punta Gorda Florida by way of the Yucatan Channel this Spring, passing just East of Isla Andreas and Isla Providencia on my way North. Has anyone heard of any hostile acts against cruisers under way offshore in that part of the Caribbean?

Also, I understand that the Cuban territorial waters extend 12 miles from its land mass. Putting aside ideal course, does anyone know whether you need to give the West end of Cuba a wider berth than 12 miles when passing through the Yucatan Channel?

Thank you.

https://www.noonsite.com/place/panam...?type=security

[KetchJohnB]

Advise...: Sail with a couple of boats. Our experience: We picked up a buddy boat in Isla Providencia and then cut inside (about 60 kn) off of Nicaragua heading to the Bay Islands. We had some trouble, with some sort of big fishing boat trying to ram us. As soon as we discussed calling the port captain in Providencia (which we did via SSB) on the VHF, the huge finishing boat backed off. Never did report it. Last year.
My buddy boat got an answering machine on the SSB :/. The attached image is the round about way...which we did not do..and the waypoints are what we did do. Lots more to this story, but I think you get the idea. We did visit the port captains office in Providencia to let them know we were heading into that area. A Columbian frigate then did follow us up to where the water switches to Nicaragua. Cool. So, resource and find out what is happening. My guess is that the fishing pirates are way desperate right now as the hurricane did a lot of damage. Best, Capt. John

p.s.

Trying to paste an image!

[KetchJohnB]

We had that trouble at WP3. Note the planned route is way east.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

They attempted to intercept us off the coast of Venezuela, near Isla Margarita. I think the complete Venezuelan coastline is a risk.

Yes, certainly a dicey area too.

[Stmurray62]

Capt Steve Murray, here. I just (March 3) completed a power boat delivery from Naples FL to Belize via key west, Hemingway Marina, Cuba, Isla Majuerres, MX, Accension Bay (Puerto Allen), MX , Xcalta, MX and San Pedro, BZ. No issues, reason for the many stops was this boat is a gas hog.

I also stopped at the west end of Cuba, a “ free diving” cove, to refuel with on board reserves. Upon entering Cuban waters, the Navy approached us asked where we were going and why. We told them we badly needed fuel and headed for Hemingway Marina. They told us to proceed and to dock at Customs dock in Marina, and await instructions in morning, which we did. We DID NOT get off boat. In morning customs and navy met us took photos of passports (all US citizens) and vessel, asked for vessel papers, photoed my captains license and directed us to the fuel DIC, which was closed but they opened for us. We paid in us currency and left; no issues, they were professional, courteous, friendly and very helpful. Btw, beautiful place, as was the cove at the West end of Cuba. Need any more details call me at 904 557 6932

[Stmurray62]

Capt Steve again, also I have a delivery planned (April) for FL to Panama (Boca de Torre), but plan to go east towards Turks, then turn right (south) between Haiti & Cuba, towards Jamaica to top off tanks, then onto Panama. A bit tougher route, but it avoids Nicaguagau and Guatemala , etc. This boat is a motor sailer with 200 gal fuel (diesel ) capacity. Call for more details??? 904 557 6932

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Rubicon King

My dinghy motor would cost 4K to replace. not so petty to me. That said I would agree, Locks and chains help and a passive security system amps it up a bit. Personally, I'm betting on my hand to hand skills and steven segal knife throwing ability if needed. If I've drank too much I will throw the knife at all three visions in front of me.

Hopefully you have a good choregraphy team like Segal does.

[Joka]

Hi y'all,

Hope you don't mind if I sidetrack the conversation a little, I'm taking the opportunity as there's been a lot of interesting talk about piracy and defense in this post.

I won't go into the subject of carrying a firearm, which can save your life as much as it can seal your fate, and is completely up to personal feeling and skills.

But I was wondering if any of you have tried different alternative in case of passage attack...

Putting on a full mask and smearing my boat with bear maze then hiding in a tiny hidden panic shelter sounded like a good way to at least reduce chances of execution on a worst case scenario... Opinions?

Also, I took interest into smoke devices... Some can be homemade with simple household ingredients and create a huge cloud of smoke in no time. Sure it won't hide you, but it will surely raise confusion on the attacking boat! Firearms? If they are equipped, chances are they have been through gunfights and may not give up at the sound of a gun.
But a cloud of smoke like used by trained military sounds like a pretty efficient way of saying "wanna get me? Come, I'm ready for you!".
Bonus is you can colour the smoke red (more visible and also threatening), and if you really want to get offensive you can mix some capsicaine (used in bear maze) or just concentrated chilli oil within the fabrication process, and if they're close enough to board when you light these up they will cough their lungs out and lose vision, while you'll be conveniently planning your next step with a full mask on.
No bullets shot, no harm, and attack avoided.
But this is all on the paper theory that I will work thru and test later on, just before I enter risky waters. A huge bonus of that method is the smoke devices basically look like giant candles and as far as I know do not contain any hazardous products. So besides being very discreet to the eye of a customs inspections officer, I don't see why any country would seize them upon entry.
If interested, I could try and find the YouTube vid on how to make these. But it's commonly and safely diy made, look for July 4th DIY smoke or something.

And in the psycho killer vein, I love the fantasy of bursting out in the cockpit with a chainsaw and a hockey mask, but I'm more of a sneaky one.
I love the idea of dropping some homemade mines in the water!
Once again nothing too offensive but just a "warning shot".
Plan is to home-make some decent size "firecrackers" out of gunpowder, or even better some professionally available "flashbangs" in the special FX industry (would require a pyrotechnician certification to procure).
Just have to set up a remote, drop the thing in a floating jar and BOOM!!
I doubt that any chasing boat that first sees a smoke screen then multiple explosions raising geysers out of the sea would risk intercepting you further!
Once again, that's on the paper theory and I will probably face some real world walls... Starting off with customs!! Since Guy Fawkes, government's have grown wary of homemade explosive devices! Even making such devices in your home country can get you in huge trouble.

PS : if you decide to go the DIY way, be EXTREMELY CAREFUL!! Making a smoke device is safe as, but messing with explosives is not a joke...
I'll always remember our Special FX teacher and his hands burnt all over... A pretty good warning on pyrotechnics, and I'm sure he's actually lucky he still has them to work with!
So make extensive research on explosives handling safety practices, and ideally talk with a professional before you even consider this path (even static electricity can blow powder up)

If you have any other suggestions on alternatives to firearms I will be really interested, and any thoughts on my whacked out maniac defense plans are welcome

Stay safe, Fair winds and safe travels!

Joka

[s/v Jedi]

These posts... it is a regular thing and I’ve learned that many skip doing research on the subject. In this case it’s easy: buy the book “Pirates Aboard” which discusses 40 cases and what to do about it: https://www.amazon.com/Pirates-Aboar.../dp/1574092308

In short, these two steps have been 100% effective:

1. Block or delay entrance.
2. Make them aware you are armed and ready.

They must understand that kicking in the hatch will be their last act. Actual Caribbean cases are discussed and we met some of the cruisers involved in those.

The suggestions about security lights, strobes and alarm sirens are good but make sure the first two points are addressed first.

[s/v Jedi]

Okay, I have something to add: we often get to read about firearms being useless as motion at sea prevents any accuracy etc. etc. and I mostly just roll my eyes and ignore that.

However, we recently did a short offshore passage and took the opportunity for some live fire practice. Conditions were winds 15-20kts gusting 23 and waves 4-6’. We fired a 20-gauge pump shotgun and a full size 9mm service pistol. Results were stunning: at a distance of 100’ around the boat the shotgun absolutely dominates. We fired birdshot and could put man-sized impact patterns anywhere we wanted accurately. Even with just birdshot and only a 20-gauge caliber, what you see hitting the water would effectively end any attack from the open boats favored by most of these pirates.

With handgun at 100’ I am convinced we can hit a pirate as well but may need a couple shots. The force from a 9mm handgun in the hands of a practiced shooter is no joke. Our gun has a 19+1 round capacity which feels great even without spare magazine. Both me and my wife feel completely confident with a handgun for boat defense but the shotgun is at another level. If you can shoot reasonable groupings at a paper target at 100 yards with a .223 or .308 then you can defend yourself at sea on a moving boat with a shotgun. Also, you don’t need a 12-gauge.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Okay, I have something to add: we often get to read about firearms being useless as motion at sea prevents any accuracy etc. etc. and I mostly just roll my eyes and ignore that.

However, we recently did a short offshore passage and took the opportunity for some live fire practice. Conditions were winds 15-20kts gusting 23 and waves 4-6’. We fired a 20-gauge pump shotgun and a full size 9mm service pistol. Results were stunning: at a distance of 100’ around the boat the shotgun absolutely dominates. We fired birdshot and could put man-sized impact patterns anywhere we wanted accurately. Even with just birdshot and only a 20-gauge caliber, what you see hitting the water would effectively end any attack from the open boats favored by most of these pirates.

With handgun at 100’ I am convinced we can hit a pirate as well but may need a couple shots. The force from a 9mm handgun in the hands of a practiced shooter is no joke. Our gun has a 19+1 round capacity which feels great even without spare magazine. Both me and my wife feel completely confident with a handgun for boat defense but the shotgun is at another level. If you can shoot reasonable groupings at a paper target at 100 yards with a .223 or .308 then you can defend yourself at sea on a moving boat with a shotgun. Also, you don’t need a 12-gauge.

Did you actually put out a can or other target out there? My experience with folks doing live fire exercises on Coast Guard cutters, which move a lot less than your typical cruiser, was that the safest place to be when they were trying to hit a 55 gal drum might have been inside the drum. The water splashed all around it and it sure seemed like they were hitting it, but then you'd check and ....no holes.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Did you actually put out a can or other target out there? My experience with folks doing live fire exercises on Coast Guard cutters, which move a lot less than your typical cruiser, was that the safest place to be when they were trying to hit a 55 gal drum might have been inside the drum. The water splashed all around it and it sure seemed like they were hitting it, but then you'd check and ....no holes.

Pretty sure that was way further out than 100’. The shotgun at that distance patterns such that a pirate would be hit every shot. With pistol every round within a 2’ radius for us. Compare that with the range where we score 75/100 at 80’ which is about a 6” group.

I’m not saying everyone can do it, but proficient shooters can. My experience in uniformed service was that most couldn’t hit a truck at 100’ so not surprised CG missed that much. I’ve seen police officers having trouble to qualify with a 14yo girl in the next stall shooting 98/100. In the army we qualified when we could hit a 6’ target at 100’ I think it was so that you could do watch duty asap