Help finding the right cruising boat

[Huson]

Norton

Thank you for your insight as well, the plan is always evolving. A year ago it started with the idea of a nor sea 27 trailer sailed... starting in New Orleans and along the same root 3-5 day trips. When you take in account vehicle maintenance, storage, camp grounds, insurances and list goes on and on it seemed to have (to many) varibles to not have some major huddles always rearing their head. You are correct I read a bunch. (Any suggestions of books are always welcomed, also. ) Authors must sell an idea in order to sell the book, which is only logical to their bias) This must be considered into any informed decision planning. Being ex navy helps with some of the costs as we still have many friends and benefits along the route to find quality aventures along the way. The National Park system also helps with costs along the way. I know the plan seems skimpy to most, but then again, people thought we were out of our mind to homeschool 3 kiddos. (youngest starts this year) They have done very well with 2 of the 3 being at least a full grade above the public school system, and had the advantages of religious education, hands on history, and in person US geography. We also had ineresting debates when we decided to become a self sufficient food family about two years ago. With our protiens consisting of venison, salmon, halibut, elk, duck , goose, wild hog and various other local fish. Our garden and fruit orchard provides the rest of the essentials. We still purchase milk, eggs and cheese. We purchase our flour materiales in bulk and utilize a 40 yr old mill to make our own flour. (This all came about when we were faced with our third youngest dianosed as adhd. By eliminating all foreign (manufacturered foods) he is 100% btr with no medication. Our last adventure consisted of a 21 day trip through Rocky Mountain National park, Yellowstone, Grand Tetons, Zion, Grand Canyon, Painted desert, and Petrified forest. Yes we drove a mini-van....prepared meals in advance, ate out only twice, utilized tents, hiked, carried a canoe and kayak, and fished. Each child took $200 of their own earned money for their own interests along the way. The rest of the trip expenditures equaled $1800.00 roughly 800.00 of that was fuel and routine vehicle maintenance. Everyone involved had a wonderful time, with many life long experiances along the way. Please understand we are younger than most people that would consider this type of adventure, and with that carries it own benefits. My wife has an natural essential oil business (Huson Homestead Products) that we utilize for sunscreen, toothpaste, soap, and medical when prudent. I am among other things a very effective outdoorsman (Lake Livingston Guided Fishing & Duck Hunting – Lake Livingston's Premiere Guide Fishing Service) I think our best quality is not to be afraid of failure, which is always an inherent possibly. Yet a winter day in the everglades fly fishing, and experiencing nature with long paddles, followed up with a tent camp on a small island would fit us very well. You are very unlikely to see us pulled up behind a bar in a yacht club, or a tourist hotel beach/pool paying for jet ski rental and off shore fishing trips. Not that there is anything wrong with any of that.... just not our style. I guess in an effort to stay on task here, understanding we are different (than maybe most) , and don't judge others by their ways or means. Lets focus efforts on the questions that were raised, with maybe an expanded effort of great wilderness expeditions with-in the stated cruising area. I don't wish to step on any toes here. We truely appreciate the time, and thoughts proposed in all the prior posts here, and anxiously await the ones to come. We are different than the norm and embrace it. My wife, and I are both well educated (her Sam Houston State, Me US Navy , and Texas Tech), we don't tend to approach ideas with half baked ideology. Case in point while we make well more than $100 per day, yet we live on well short of that in our 2700sq ft home on a lake in Tx. We could afford to throw more money at this beast of an idea, yet it would affect our plans for retirement, higher education for the kids, and other aspects of life. Thanks again for all you ideas, and thoughtful responses.

[Huson]

I need to spend a day r two on a west sail, they keep coming up, and other than performance/draft/ tacking abilities... don't seem to have many draw backs. Correct evaluations?

Love to walk the docks in Kemah and Clear Lake area. Grew up in Friendswood area, and have conversed with many great people down there.

Have heard SO many reservations about build quality of Hunters haven't really considered them, is this truly an oversight on my part?

[FSMike]

Huson -
The more I read the more I think you can accomplish a cruising life easily enough.

As far as cats go, bridge deck clearance is important, as you discovered in the Gemini.

Some folks do not like the motion of multihulls, most that I've met prefer it to heeling.

As to Wharram cats or other cats/tris I personally wouldn't want to invest the time/energy to build one. It wouldn't faze me, however, to buy a used one with a good survey and refurbish/maintain it. I've seen "home built" boats that were of higher quality than some factory builds.
Boats like Wharrams, Brown or Cross tris, etc, are quite simple to work on.

Interestingly, some of the bigger trimarans (40' or so), may have a more pleasing motion, and may also have adequate accommodations for your family.
Hope to see you out there.

[RedHerring]

Originally Posted by Huson

find many that may fit, then find the deal amongst those.

Worked pretty well for me so far.

Stay away from anything with any hint of hull integrity issues (soft/wet core, balsa under the waterline, rusty keelbolts, leaking teak deck, that sort of thing). Stay away from neglected boats - you can find a 30-40k boat of 1970-80s vintage that ain't. Pay attention to big ticket items that are either straining or sitting in the sun, like diesel (~10-15k new), standing rigging (~3k new), working sails (~5k new), some sort of light air sail (~2k new), furler, solar / batteries setup, etc. Ideally, all of these should be from this century. Anything that aint, you'll probably want to replace soon.

In the electronics department the only expensive thing you really need is a working/reliable autopilot (better yet, windvane).

[Kenomac]

Mr. hudson,

Just curious.... Where do you plan on keeping all your stuff for six people onboard a less than 40ft boat? Another item you haven't thought through appears to be the quantity of fresh water you'll need to service even the most basic needs of six people. Where do you plan on obtaining the water, storing the water and the food items purchased " in bulk" on a less than 40ft boat?

And while your at it, how about addressing the electical needs for six people. Two people or even three can make out with a few solar panels, but for six... you don't have the space onboard for the panels required.

[Sailor647]

Originally Posted by nortonscove

Writers are like preachers and should be taken with a grain of salt.

Hey now, let's not get mean! LOLOLOL

[sailingfarmer]

Ideas.... Bristol 41.1 center cockpit draws 4.5 feet sails well...

Islander Freeport 41 Full keel center cockpit, comfortable for a family (you can play hide and go seek)... 5 foot draft

Gulfstar or CSY,...also...

[ctl411]

Originally Posted by Huson

Have heard SO many reservations about build quality of Hunters haven't really considered them, is this truly an oversight on my part?

The 37c is a heavy built hull 18000 plus pounds.
4 or 5 thousand heavier than the 37.5.
My shoal was closer to 20000.
Don't remember actual weight on my deep draft (20 plus years ago.
The bad "rep" is why they are a bargain.
Check the deck out for rot like any old boat but the basis is there for a inexpensive cruiser.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Given your budget and your plans and four kids, the boats I have seen that would be on my "short list" would include "sea berths" as shown in the photo below. The two sea berths (shown in the photo as a berth that is above the settee, could be good for a child or adult, and with a curtain can provide some privacy.

Here is a shoal draft boat, 40 foot, that has these. I am not suggesting this particular boat, but more the type, so you can see how the sea berths appear.

1980 Pearson Centerboard Cutter Rigg Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[Huson]

Hmm, a list of planned amenities might help here.
Sonar/gps
Humminbird helix 10 with 360 side imaging already have. Navionics gold maps.
Manual head/s
Maual windless. Two oversized hooks (have some to choose from already) two smaller hooks and rode. Have this already )
Hank on sails (not to interested in spin, like a dbl 150 genoa/jib and pole setup.) We will make the sails for a considerble less investment.
Rigging will be new and done myself with father's input and guidance (mechanical engineer)
Led lighting with oil back up (we typically sleep with the sun)
Diesel motor and spares
Transmission open to suggestions?
Have a ramarine auto pilot, but also feel confident in ability to make a wind vane (especially if back stay and after structure is present.) (Have mill and lathe for machining and welding abilities)
Water... reverse osmosis when needed, rain catchment and purchase (think 100gal min and 200 if a heavier displacement hull) shower with salt water and freshwater rinse (talking crazy?)
Laundry shore based at preplanned locations.
Sewage dumps (need to freshen up on laws and regulations)
Radar- nice to have but not a must with formidable education and no time line to pick favorable windows. (Avoiding shipping lanes when possible at night with out.) Fog seems avoidable in cruising area... unless I missed something. Have marine business local that has discussed trading equipment for services also.
Stove diesel 3 burner, bbq topside (have already)
Have solar panels and gel type batteries 4
Will replace most running rigging unless in great repair.
Have stock of raw teak, mahogany, and various other hard woods, and all tools needed to work them.
Have 250' of new chain. Might have a nice manual windless coming to fit also.
Have sextant.
Will replace life lines with net mesh, and new cable have most of these supplies already.

Have a friend who owns a shrimping business out of Galveston... has personal yard for haulouts traded hvac services for his boat for unlimited use... (documented)

Repaired blisters on compac, 4 inch crack on mac25, split the shell on the sunfish, and vaious topside leaks on mac.

Have excellent working knowledge of diesel and two stroke motors. Repair and maintain my own fleet. Including three power boats.

Stuff. Will require engineering. But if we keep the experiences amazing, stuff becomes less important. Gear... fishing, skin diving, photography (daughters passion), tools will all have a home. One laptop, vhf (have already) ham license this year.

Dink posed a huge problem, but I think I have over come this, with my own design nesting 8'/15' sailing dingy which can be used separate or fused. Row or motored, canoe design. Frp construction with 100% foam close cell core. (This is part of another budget) seats 7...just. should be able to take ashore and split (5 min) to avoid marina fees. Weight about 250lbs we hope.

I am sure I have missed something, chirp in

I hope to find vessel with epirb, and lift raft in working order, if not will have to cross this bridge accordingly.

[Huson]

Yes I agree on bunk settee design, with nice curtain a certain amount of privcy, also. My thought originally was was pilot berths port and starboard, aft dbl, forward dbl v berth with dividing curtain, and storage below. Settee for off watch. Like the idea of small cockpit center for safety, and wide side decks, (might be a trade off for pilot berths though) and after deck for lounging on nice days.

[Huson]

Bristol are on the short list so is the islander, but you have to be ready to pounce in my experience the deals are sold very quickly!

[vjm]

Originally Posted by FSMike

Huson -
The more I read the more I think you can accomplish a cruising life easily enough.

As far as cats go, bridge deck clearance is important, as you discovered in the Gemini.

Some folks do not like the motion of multihulls, most that I've met prefer it to heeling.

As to Wharram cats or other cats/tris I personally wouldn't want to invest the time/energy to build one. It wouldn't faze me, however, to buy a used one with a good survey and refurbish/maintain it. I've seen "home built" boats that were of higher quality than some factory builds.
Boats like Wharrams, Brown or Cross tris, etc, are quite simple to work on.

Interestingly, some of the bigger trimarans (40' or so), may have a more pleasing motion, and may also have adequate accommodations for your family.
Hope to see you out there.

This is a great suggestion. Given what the OP has said about his family's self reliance, the budget, the need for many berths, younger kids on board, and his own skills, a well done home build multi seems like a great solution.

OP, I hear you on your concerns about build quality, but keep in mind that many of the biggest names in what are now affordable boats had some seriously dubious practices. Get a survey from a really knowledgeable surveyor, do your own long look over, and budget time to replace basic safety items if needed.

[Huson]

Ok... cats have their merits to this equation. The one big cat we were on was way more comfortable than the rest, and yet WAY out of budget. The Wharram designs have always been interesting. Even watched videos with Mr. Wharram on and sailing the rig. Love the simplicity, wooden cleats, and bollards. Lashed bracing, large tramps, huge bridge deck. The ability to beach on a leeward island. Speed, ability to hide from squalls in the shallows, maybe even out flank some with just speed.

I just wish I could lay my hands/eyes/ride on one close by (300miles). I have NEVER seen one out here.
Wouldn't know where to start... don't know much about size options..... heck anything..... I am a wharram cat virgin. What would be the baby step here? A hobie, nacra.... do you find a cheap 21 wharram and learn the ropes on that... does anyone have any experience with these?... btr yet....have one in need a novice greenhorn crew member. (Schedule kinda tied up for a month or so, but might be able to work something in after that. :-)
Do you/ can you heave-to in a storm? or run under barepoles? Yikes... whole can of worms.... I feel Amazon books calling my name.... ;-)

[hsi88]

I have seen nice Whitby 42's for as low as $20K, ready to sail. I looked at them because of the shallow draft, center cockpit, and lots of room. Its a ketch and some come with a staysail. Some even have an added mule sail. So a lot of sail can be raised for lighter air. Plenty of fun work for a family crew. Worth a look.