Has boat insurance become so hard to find?

[Privateer666]

Yup - going to have to dig in and see what we can do!

[Island Time O25]

Owned a bunch of boats since 2006. Only had to insure one of them, 1980 36 footer. Found it almost impossible to get liability only for any price. As soon as they heard the words combo "1980, liability only" they were not interested. One broker was straight forward saying that for $300-400-500 premium he has to do the same amount of work and follow ups as for $3-4-5K premium. No brainer.

There was seemingly one guy (btw, recommended here on CF) in RI who was wiling to provide coverage until the moment I got to the fact that it is owned by a corp. "Oh, I don't do commercial side, sorry" was his reaction.

Found a local insurance agent whom I've known for years socially who cajoled some underwriter he knows personally into doing a private placement for under $800 for 300/500k liability only. But he says it's a one off deal and not to assume that it will be renewed automatically, even at higher rates. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed until the next renewal period which is at the end of the sailing season.

[Evergreen]

I have had good luck with Susan Waters:
Susan Waters

INTERNATIONAL WATERS INS. SERVICES

411 Walnut Street #14847, Green Cove Springs, FL 32043

Website: www.MarineInsurance.cc | e-mail: Susan@MarineInsurance.cc

Of note: Email is her preferred method of communication because she is very busy.

[ashmun]

To the original post, the new buyers should just pay the $3k offered the first year and then renegotiate the price after the first year or find a different policy the second-year when they have been boat owners for 1-year. And get the recommended surveyor’s list done (there’s nothing big and most are non-critical).

[Peeew]

It’s very unpleasant that insurance rates are so high right now. How well insured a boat needs to be is a personal decision. Perhaps a lower damage limit and keeping the liability portion is a negotiating point? But even paying this quoted fee for a few years is a whole lot cheaper than buying a smaller boat and moving up. Offering a time of training with a licensed captain might be another negotiating point?
But it is definitely another cost of entry. If $3000 annually is a breaking point compared to whatever they expected I have to wonder if they are prepared for boat ownership expenses.

[Christian W.]

Try Edward William Marine Insurance Worldwide. I've never had to claim, but they are very easy to deal with.

[qwerme]

Originally Posted by Privateer666

Started looking for a boat in earnest last year in Florida (I’m Canadian) to sail Bahamas. Budget $65k, 36-38 LOA. As part of the process, contacted several insurance companies. Despite years of sailing/bareboat charters and countless courses, the fact it would be our first purchase + value (apparently to low) + age of target boats (+20 years) resulted in zero interest, even for liability only. Sucks as my wife and I have been working towards this for 20 years as our winter escape plan now that we’re both retired. Guess it’s time to pivot and come up with a Plan B.

You should checkout Aviva via Skippers Plan, they were pretty straight forward and will insure you in the Bahamas, will be expensive. Or you could also try Edward William, I think they insure anyone and anything

[AA3JY]

Originally got a great quote, even paid their premium up front, from State Farm however had to jump through a couple hoops upon their request. Had to show experience and have a current survey . Accomplished their requests and they came back with a new quote 6x’s their original quote. Still waiting for return of our money.

Don’t fall for State Farm’s ‘Bait and Switch’ tactics��

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by DEAN2140

Call me cavalier, but I would self insure if faced with a $3K premium on a $50K boat and just get liability coverage. As a point of reference, my Alerion 28 is probably worth $60K and my premium with Allstate is $372. I had one claim several years ago for over $20K in damages that resulted from a mark rounding (I was on starboard) so probably the other guy's insurance paid most of it.

We have found no underwriters to offer liability only.

We have been cruising, live aboards, in the Caribbean for eight years. We have been canceled by Lloyds, Pantaneous, Geico. Now with ANJO who insures only in the Caribbean.

We are unable to sail back to the US or anywhere else. No insurance available. Th e standard excuse is the boat is too old and too big. I will stack my well maintained, several times refitted 38 year old Camper & Nicholson 58 ketch against any Hunter, Beneteau, etc. Their paper thin hulls, my 40 ton 1-1/2” glass and Kevlar solid construction. Their teeny standing rigging, my 3/4” cables. Let’s cruise the ARC and see who breaks down first.

ANJO has no trouble with us. Jack line offered but at 4X the price. All others rejected us.

My opinion, any boat that has survived like this is a better risk than the current average boat especially where a recognized pedigree is concerned. The durability and survivability is demonstrated.

[Don C L]

My insurer, Hagerty, gave me $300,000 in liability but they required I insured the boat for at least $10,000. My boat is a 1962 and I signed on with Hagerty BEFORE my other insurance expired which also was important. Don't let your current insurance expire.

[ashmun]

Yes, Caribbean insurance policies are a good option!

For those considering Edwards or a fewer other insurance companies of the sort (even from known brokers); Google their the name to see those who haven’t been paid and other’s comments and Read the Fine print* of the policy carefully including the legal jurisdiction (USA, UK, Canada, or ??? else).

Our little 50 slip marina had two boats arrive last summer/fall with $35k and $170k+ in damage. The first was never paid (“pound sand” was the response) and the second only a portion.

The problem is boaters are not reporting non-payments issues to the Department of Insurance for their State, so that these issues don’t go on records. Many states, the Department of Insurance require all insurance companies to be licensed and they help consumers with issues (like non-payment or under payment).

* for example of “Fine Print":

In the event of any claim, accident, or loss against this policy in the first 90 days from inception the policy excess will be trebled.

The total policy excess will be doubled for any claim relating to fire.

The deductible applicable under this policy is doubled when the vessel is moored, or at anchor, unless said mooring is on a secure pontoon or wall mooring in a recognized marina, or on a permanent riverside mooring.

Any claim for loss or damage to any appliance, machinery, equipment, or other property which is a computer, or which contains or comprises any computer technology and which: - Fails to perform or function in the precise manner for which it was designed for any reason arising from the performance or functionality of such computer technology or, - arises directly or indirectly from the importation of any software virus whether the importation was malicious, negligent, or accidental.

Any incident arising from the negligence of you or any representative in charge of the vessel by order and with the knowledge of you.

Any action brought in a court of law outside of American Samoa or a court that applies law that is not American Samoan law.

Contact with a charted reef and/or grounding during the hours of darkness or when the sun is below 5 degrees from the horizon.

Contact with a charted reef and/or grounding where a forward lookout and appropriate navigation equipment has not been utilized.

Piracy which will be excluded in any areas highlighted by the IMB (International Marine Bureau) as risk areas.

We will pay for resulting direct physical loss to the insured yacht for a dismasting if a professional rig inspection was completed within the last two years and any deficiencies that were identified with the standing rigging or chain plates were remedied as recommended and the work was completed by a professional rigger.

manufacturer’s defects or design defects, [excluded]

the cost of repairing or replacing any part of your vessel due to mechanical and/or electrical breakdown or failure

And one of my favorites was the policy requiring the fire extinguishers to be professional inspected annual and monthly by captain (or someone) with log of the inspection. Or the boat’s compass professionally swung within x period.

[Rockinar]

The pandemic changed the market. Bunch of people with no experience suddenly decided they wanted to buy boats and RVs.

Newbies wanting to start with a 40 foot boat are going to have trouble finding insurance. If they do, they are going to pay through the nose.

[jalmberg]

Originally Posted by TacomaSailor

I

They were told by several insurance brokers that it was almost impossible to get boat insurance for anything over 32' or35' with no prior boat ownership experience.

That’s the problem. Too much boat. Would you want to insure people with no track record? Not me!

[steffan]

Part of the reasoning for our buying our current 34' was to gain ownership experience. The theory was that would keep us safer and hopefully help with insurance qualification later on. Our dream boat is 10-12' bigger, depending on age. We'll have 5+ years ownership when we trade up. I hope it was worth it and we can get a policy when the time comes. We'll probably be looking in the 20-30 yr age range.

[Privateer666]

I'm curious about what you mean by "no track record". I look at it differently (not that it really matters to the underwriters). From a track record perspective, while I have never owned a boat, I have 20 years of sailing experience (bareboat and crew) in the Pacific Northwest (including a 360 of Van Isle), Bahamas, several Caribbean locations, Honduras, Hawaii, and Greece on boats ranging from 28 to 48. I also have at whack of education / certifications (Offshore, Marine Radio, Navigation, SOS, Canadian Forces JOST program, Marine mechanics, etc., etc.,...). What I don't have is a track record of boat ownership. And...I've also had my fill of/with boat owners that don't have the experience/education track record who, while owners, have zero clue how to read a chart, basic rule of the road, safety procedures, etc...

There was a time not that long ago (I've been planning this for awhile) that I was more than qualified to easily insure a 36-38 boat. And times have changed / the industry as changed (boating and insurance). So as I said in my original post - time for a Plan B.

Fair Winds