Harken Furler

[BonesD]

Hello, I have an older furler in my boat which ai am not very familiar with. Furler or boat.
Anyway, I had to remove the jib for some repairs and in doin so I had to remove a two piecesmall clam shell thing I believe is called the feeder. It goes on/over the sail feeder slot in the fueling mechanism.
Can’t figure out how it goes back on without the screw that attaches the two haves together interfering with the leading edge of the sail. I installed the head of the sail first into the feeder and then hoisted it up. This left about two foot of sail hanging out the bottom of the feeder slot. I then fed the remainder of the sail down through the slot and attached it to the tack swivel. All good so far.
My problem is getting the clam shell feeder in place.
This fueling mechanism has a left and a right slot. The nstryctions say to use either side. The feeder seems to be symmetrical with the only difference being one side is threaded for the resting screw.
Thi shouldn’t be this hard. What am I missing? The instructions don’t mention this part except to have it identified in the parts blow up. The picture shows the retaining screw to be towards the bottom.
Any help will be appreciated.

[SVHarmonie]

Originally Posted by BonesD

Hello, I have an older furler in my boat which ai am not very familiar with. Furler or boat.
Anyway, I had to remove the jib for some repairs and in doin so I had to remove a two piecesmall clam shell thing I believe is called the feeder. It goes on/over the sail feeder slot in the fueling mechanism.
Can’t figure out how it goes back on without the screw that attaches the two haves together interfering with the leading edge of the sail. I installed the head of the sail first into the feeder and then hoisted it up. This left about two foot of sail hanging out the bottom of the feeder slot. I then fed the remainder of the sail down through the slot and attached it to the tack swivel. All good so far.
My problem is getting the clam shell feeder in place.
This fueling mechanism has a left and a right slot. The nstryctions say to use either side. The feeder seems to be symmetrical with the only difference being one side is threaded for the resting screw.
Thi shouldn’t be this hard. What am I missing? The instructions don’t mention this part except to have it identified in the parts blow up. The picture shows the retaining screw to be towards the bottom.
Any help will be appreciated.

I am not sure where you see an interference. Install the way you describe, aligned with the two slots, and the screw lower.

The edge of the sail enters the slots at this point, and slides right on past the screw.

If you install it, and post a picture we can tell you if you got it right...

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by SVHarmonie

I am not sure where you see an interference. Install the way you describe, aligned with the two slots, and the screw lower.

The edge of the sail enters the slots at this point, and slides right on past the screw.

If you install it, and post a picture we can tell you if you got it right...

Agree w/Harmonie on the install and not sure where there would be a problem. Just looked at mine, the screw head (actually mine has 2 screws) is towards stbrd. Neither feed is interfered w/the recessed screw head.

[Dsanduril]

Normally the feeder would be installed 1-2' (30-60cm) above the furler drum. From the feeder to the tack attachment on the drum the luff of the sail does not go into the groove on the luff. Most sails made for a furler have a bit of a "notch" in this area for exactly this reason. The feeder gets installed with the screw on the bottom side, and this does not interfere since there is nothing in the luff groove below the feeder.

A picture being worth many words, this is a pretty typical setup:



This is the part I think is the problem:

Originally Posted by BonesD

..This left about two foot of sail hanging out the bottom of the feeder slot. I then fed the remainder of the sail down through the slot and attached it to the tack swivel...

Normally this lower section of the luff would not be in the slot (pretty much every furler I have seen, I know there has to be one out there that is different).

[scargo]

What if you push the foils up along the head-stay ? you may have a space where you can insert the feeder. However you will have to remove the sail first.
Anyway my experience is only with Harken MkIV.


BTW I don't think you had to remove the feeder to remove the head-sail.

[BonesD]

Dsanduril, first howdy I’m hoping to come to Petersburg as soon as the ban is lifted.
Your explanation makes perfect sense. I have tried every combination I could time after time but couldn’t figure it out. Thanks. Does the lift run through the grooves on the feeder at all? The entire lift has that bead on it that runs up the head stay.
Dscargo, I think the first post has got it got it nailed. As far as removing the feeder to take the sail down you might be right but at the time that’s what I thought I needed to do. I will have to wait and see when I get the feeder back in.
Thanks for both replies.

[BonesD]

Here are few more pictures. I Tried just leaving the tack end of the lift hanging free. I don’t think that is correct.
Im pretty sure that the feeder must be removed to instal or remove the head sail. I just don’t get it.
Sorry the pictures are all cockeyed.

[Bill O]

Obviously something is amiss.

Before you took it apart did the sail fit correctly (luff tape should stop ~ at feeder height, then loose to your tack point on the drum; see pic that Dsanduril posted)? The way you have the feeder set up w/a small piece of foil under it (between the drum) is correct.

Is the sail and upper swivel going up all the way?
What repairs did the sail maker do to your sail? Did they do repairs/lengthen the luff tape? A long shot here, but did they give you the correct sail back?

If the sail can be properly hoisted and you have that much tape left out, you have too much luff tape. Is the luff length still correct?

[BonesD]

Sail guy only repaired the leech where the wind had got to it. The sail is fully hoisted as the tack is in the correct place to attach. Yes, it’s my sail I got back.
The bead on the luft goes down to 6 or 8 inches above the tack attachment point on the Furler. I know it’s difficult to tell but in picture number 3, the loose luft I am holding in my hand is what is left hanging out the bottom of the feeder if I install it outside the track in the head stay and that is attached with the tack. You can also see the portion below the beaded luft that has the tack at the end If the bottom of the luft isn’t supposed to be fitted in the track what’s the function of the last foot and a half of the track. I probably just need to grab a sail boat guy off the dock and drag him over to tell me what’s what. Sorry to be so dense.

[Sailmonkey]

You are calling the part a “feeder” correctly, it feeds the luff into the slot.

Your problem is that your sail has too long of a luff tape on it. The bottom of the sail shouldn’t go into the track.

If it was mine, I’d cut off the lower luff tape 4” or so below the feeder and melt the cut edge.

[Dsanduril]

In picture 3 it looks like the sail is built the way I would expect - the white luff tape ends above the tack and there is a red section without luff tape toward the tack. How long is that section without luff tape?

I'm wondering if the feeder is in the wrong place? Normally they are within 1-2' of the drum, typically I'd guess 14-18". Too low and it gets hard to feed in the sail, too high and there is too much luff not in the foil. Any chance that there is another joint in the foil lower than where you have the feeder? The place where it actually belongs? Maybe the joint where you have it now isn't secured properly and the foil section slid down?

Those are my random thoughts, a photo showing the feeder, the drum, and maybe a tape measure would help a lot.

[Edit] photo 5 shows a little (very little) wear on the luff tape, and some black aluminum staining. This is generally a sign of a working joint in the foil, which makes me even more suspicious that there is a section of foil that slid down and there is a lower joint where the feeder belongs. To counter that, I don't see any fasteners that would secure a joint there, so it doesn't make 100% sense to me even though I am suggesting it.[/Edit]

[BonesD]

Hopefully the following explanation and pictures will answer all the questions. I don’t know why the pictures all rotate 90 degrees. It makes them hard to look at The sail is hoisted fully and cannot go any higher

The first picture shows the bottom of the luft in the slot and the lower section attached to the top of the Furler. The lower section (the tack) is 12 inches from the clevis to the bottom of the beaded luft.

The 3rd picture show the bottom of the luft outside the slotted housing but still attached to the lower clevis. This portion of the beaded luft hanging out is 18 inches long. So with that part and the lower 12 inches mentioned above is 30 niches of unsupported luft.

The 2nd picture shows the slot where the feeder attaches. It is 21 1/4 inches from the top of the Furler to the bottom of the slot.

The 4th picture shows me holding one side of the feeder with the sail pulled to the side to expose the screw hole.

The 5th picture shows the luft in a straight line completely covering the screw hole. The feeder half is still in the same position as in picture 4. The feeder may or not be upside down in reference to the screw hole but the result either way is the same for the screw hole.

Picture 6 shows the set screws that keep the lower portion of the track in place. It cannot go any lower.

The 7th picture shows the set screws that anchor the upper track. The track screws were not removed or repositioned.

The 8th and final picture shows half the feeder held in place with my hand the lower portion of the beaded luft run into the lower track. You can see how much of a bow in the bead I have to make to expose the mounting screw
Sorry being so slow to respond but I have to wait until the wind dies down in order to unfurl the sail.

[Dsanduril]

The distance of 21" doesn't seem out of the realm, so that sounds OK/normal.

For the sail to fit properly you then need the ~30 inches of sail without bead to have the feeder fit properly and the sail fit properly (basically the bead should end just above the feeder). You can trim the bead by hand if you like, no need to have a sailmaker do it. However...

If the sail is fully hoisted, then it appears the sail is too big for the boat, you're not even lifting the shackle at the tack, much less getting any tension on the luff. Seems like the luff is too long by 6-9", and that does require sailmaking. How good is the sailmaker you had do repairs? You can sometimes get a sailmaker to come down and take a look, see if they see any problems. For small repair stuff this becomes pro-bono or customer development work for them - some will be do it if they are in the area anyway, others would not.

Option B, I suppose, if you can get luff tension, is to do as you are doing - feed in the sail, take off the feeder, feed in the lower section by hand, and store the feeder in the nav. station junk drawer. Generally roller jibs don't get taken up/down much so maybe not a big deal. That's not the "normal" way, but it would probably work OK. I'd watch for wear on the luff tape where the feeder should be, if you start to see wear then I'd stop and reevaluate.

[Photos from an iDevice? Rotation comes from an early implementation by Apple engineers on information encoded in the photo that many other organizations simply ignore. Apple is probably "right" in the technical sense, but it doesn't play well with the rest of the world. A Beta vs. VHS thing]

[Sailmonkey]

If that sail is fully hoisted, then It doesn’t fit. You’ve got no luff tension!

I’ll venture to guess it was a second hand sail that sort of fit.

Also, the rust spot on the luff tape sort of points to the PO leaving the feeder in place and leaving the tape out to the tack.