Good Summary of Beneteau Strengths...

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Why try to glorify or sell this over any other brand boat?


They are what they are - an entry level boat with a flat hull bow section prone to slamming but at an affordable price. Good weekend sailboat with an emphasis on style over substance.



I have nothing against these boats and our son had a 46 ft Beneteau for a few years which he enjoyed doing some lake sailing. Nothing to rave about.

Good all round boats , Capable of meeting the vast majority of sailors needs. Will cross seas and oceans with the usual preparation and a capable crew. Many sail around some of the most hostile waters in Northern Europe. There design is similar to most modern production boats. To suggest a € 250,000 is “ entry level” is rather ridiculous

Not over glorifying it. Merely stating what they are. A good quality popular sailing boat aimed squarely at the largest market segment.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

Beneteau is a family run business since 1884. Their sales are $1.62 Billion.
They produce 10,000 hulls a year. Their stock is up .36. They have more sailors on the water than any other brand.
Starting Benni Bash after Benni Bash reveals a lot, it doesn’t change Beneteau’s future a bit. The brand you think is far superior isn’t in business.
Some of the folks suggesting boats twice their price there are 4 built a year of are in old boats and can’t afford the Beneteau.
You’ve made a better buying choice, goody.

Benny bashing is largely a US thing. It’s just envy.

[Manateeman]

True enough, we do have a purpose built vessel. We’ve built boats that give a lot of people a lot of fun for a reasonable amount of money. And please note, the manatee crew has been doing this for more than half a century for a wide variety of OEM shops. We began with small boats. Beetle cats, Marshall cat boats, O’Day.
Nice well made boats that can be passed on generation to generation. Then we worked on J boats. Still pretty good construction. That is where we saw the first design issue. The keel to hull joint. They tried different ways to overcome it and settled on a band of triaxial in epoxy. Worked ok for the J24 because the racers were always breaking something anyway.
One day a J35 came back to the plant just a month after shipping. It had hit a rock. We told the owner we could give him all the interior woodwork, all the fiberglass parts he needed and anything like epoxy for free. We’d fix him up with shop guys who would do the work for cash on weekends for short money. We could NOT persuade the insurance company. The boat was a total.
That was the point where yachting sort of ended and boating began. The point where a lot of people began to have the opportunity to enjoy sailing without being wealthy...and we still feel that was a truly wonderful thing.
One of the problems was education and the other legal oversight.
We compare it to small aircraft. To some degree, automobiles.
It seems reasonable to require some level of education to fly an airplane and that aircraft be designed with safety at the top of the list. Cars must pass a crash test but not a J35. Luckily no one was injured but please try to see the point. If your car stops running you can get out and walk. Not if you are flying. Not if you are in a boat. We are not advocating total regulation just some common sense. People who wear a seatbelt, don’t drink, obey the speed limits and are courteous have a reasonable expectation that placing their children in a car...even if there is an accident...a reasonable expectation of survival.
This forum is an excellent vehicle of education and safety ought to be a thread subject discussed again and again. So too should be vessel longevity because boats can be a major investment that should not fail when the warranty ends. Some will sail icebreakers, some feel the need for speed and will pay the costs.
We see a rather completely unregulated industry turning out disposable boats that are disappointing to own because the designs are so costly to run and repair.
Disposable is not correct either because you cannot easily recycle them. In the back of every boatyard you will find the lost sea of dreams. I don’t know if there is any way to change that situation but I won’t use the names of some builders and strength in the same sentence.
Captain Mark and his happy to be living in a big beer can, manatee crew.

[goboatingnow]

We see a rather completely unregulated industry turning out disposable boats that are disappointing to own because the designs are so costly to run and repair.

European boats built to the very well specified RCD and its accompanying ISO technical specs. It’s definitely not “ completely unregulated “.

Most modern boats are still going 2 decades later , many are 3 decades or more. So many are bought you can hardly describe the experience as ‘ disappointing ‘

What I see are very capable boats at price points people can actually afford and which meet most buyers expectation.

[Kd9truck]

As long as the buyers and owners realize the wisdom of the above, everything is fine. Otherwise, we have another Coast Guard rescue on a post...[/QUOTE]

THE ARTICLE WAS PUBLISHED IN DECEMBER 2013

So dramatic, I felt a chill down my spine. All of the sudden I feel my Jeanneau 44i grossly under adequate because it is just another production Yacht similar to that Beneteau in the review.

COAST GUARD RESCUES? So serious, that article was 10 years ago, dear God there must be dozens of fatalities related.

Where are the corresponding death totals ?
Where are the ensuing after action incidents?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Kd9truck

As long as the buyers and owners realize the wisdom of the above, everything is fine. Otherwise, we have another Coast Guard rescue on a post...

THE ARTICLE WAS PUBLISHED IN DECEMBER 2013

So dramatic, I felt a chill down my spine. All of the sudden I feel my Jeanneau 44i grossly under adequate because it is just another production Yacht similar to that Beneteau in the review.

COAST GUARD RESCUES? So serious, that article was 10 years ago, dear God there must be dozens of fatalities related.

Where are the corresponding death totals ?
Where are the ensuing after action incidents?[/QUOTE]



Seeming on the wild coast of armchair bay , viewed through the 2” porthole surrounded by teak furniture so massive the long keel is so big the whole boat is unsinkable as it’s keel is touching the bottom , Beneteaus are throwing seacocks and sinking in the first breath of wind over 20 knots.

Elsewhere the truth is of course rather different .

[rslifkin]

I wouldn't say the Beneteaus are bad boats, but there are definitely a few things I'd want to be done differently on a boat I expected to use in heavy weather. A proper keel stub (and bilge) is a big one (versus a keel just bolted to the hull). I don't love glued in liners, but if done well enough they work.

[Sailor Sailor]

To connect the dots for some of you who do not see the big picture:

Yachting Monthly has a Facebook page with 40,000 followers.

The Beneateau review was posted yesterday on its Facebook page, even though it first appeared in the magazine 9 years ago when that model came out.

The author of that review was prescient: "...her swathes of windows ‘vulnerable’ to 30ft beam seas..."

That aspect appeared to be exactly one of the vulnerabilities of the 393 rescued by the Coast Guard this year.

The captain of that boat was extremely experienced, but was apparently limited in his storm tactics, either through lack of equipment and gear, judgment and decision making, or craft chosen.

The point of this thread is not to bash Beneteau. I have already admitted I like Beneteau. I have toured them at boatshows and they have beautiful, light, stylish, spacious interior space. They make good raceboats. A Beneteau would likely suit my purposes (although a new one costs 20 times what my good old boat does.)

The point of the thread is that particular boats are built for particular purposes. A general purpose boat does lots of things, but does not do any one thing as well as a boat designed and built for that purpose.

Perhaps, novices shopping for a boat on this forum with dreams of world voyaging should be reminded of that simple point, that most of the more experienced sailors already understand. If they really want to buy a bluewater cruiser, they should be pointed in that direction and understand all the limitations of that design: it probably is narrower, darker, less spacious, lower freeboard, and wetter than a boat designed for entertaining or coastal hopping with large windows and skylights, high freeboard, wide stern, and lighter construction and displacement.

[Sailor Sailor]

Just to add the diametrically opposed views on this issue, here are two representative comments from the Yachting Monthly Facebook page (notice there is no ad hominen attacks):

"The Sense range was way ahead of its time. It’s as safe as any, in fact probably more seaworthy that current range. It’s all about the indoor-outdoor flow, and my guess is that within 5 years the discerning yacht owners will expect this style yacht. Use modern technology, and you can have some real performance too."

"It was never the boats that were a problem. It was the insane RCD that bestowed ocean going capability on boats that were patently not suitable for that, completely misleading and potentially dangerous for novices relying on a "standard" that is just marketing ********.
Be interesting to know what category this boat has."

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Sailor Sailor

To connect the dots for some of you who do not see the big picture:

Yachting Monthly has a Facebook page with 40,000 followers.

The Beneateau review was posted yesterday on its Facebook page, even though it first appeared in the magazine 9 years ago when that model came out.

The author of that review was prescient: "...her swathes of windows ‘vulnerable’ to 30ft beam seas..."

That aspect appeared to be exactly one of the vulnerabilities of the 393 rescued by the Coast Guard this year.

The captain of that boat was extremely experienced, but was apparently limited in his storm tactics, either through lack of equipment and gear, judgment and decision making, or craft chosen.

The point of this thread is not to bash Beneteau. I have already admitted I like Beneteau. I have toured them at boatshows and they have beautiful, light, stylish, spacious interior space. They make good raceboats. A Beneteau would likely suit my purposes (although a new one costs 20 times what my good old boat does.)

The point of the thread is that particular boats are built for particular purposes. A general purpose boat does lots of things, but does not do any one thing as well as a boat designed and built for that purpose.

Perhaps, novices shopping for a boat on this forum with dreams of world voyaging should be reminded of that simple point, that most of the more experienced sailors already understand. If they really want to buy a bluewater cruiser, they should be pointed in that direction and understand all the limitations of that design: it probably is narrower, darker, less spacious, lower freeboard, and wetter than a boat designed for entertaining or coastal hopping with large windows and skylights, high freeboard, wide stern, and lighter construction and displacement.

A boat is a compromise , a tank of a boat with a small cockpit , small potholes and designed solely to survive a ocean F11 would be a complete pig when you get to anchorage’s , town quays , marinas , day sails in the sun and entertaining your friends. No one would buy a boat solely to cross oceans because that’s the smallest time a boat will typically do , even circumnavigating. The vast majority boats aren’t moving at all and need to comfortable , expansive inside and have the supports to support modern living , at anchor , in marinas and backed to innumerable town quays. Etc.

Then it’s got to be built to a price point the market segment can aford as not everyone is going to buy a €1 million Amel !!

So you have a typical Beneteau , optimised generally for the 90 % activity. BUT with careful prep, good boatmanship , etc. will take you across an ocean to move from one cruising ground to another , 100s do every year.

That’s not to mention that these boats are used by sailors in the north of Europe , cruising wild Atlantic coasts of Ireland , Scotland , Norway , the north sea , it’s gives me a pita to hear people describe these as “ coastal “ cruises. 24 hour offshore in SW Ireland in a gale , where the whole coast is a lee shore , is way harder on a boat then any milk run across the Atlantic and would sort out some of the armchair sailors here let me tell you. You be on the sole getting new a religion most likely

Certain armchair , who have never sailed in a big gale , seem to search the Internet to find one or two instances where actually the crew quite frankly **$ked up *** and suffers as a result, then attempt to suggest all such boats would meet the same fate , rubbish about Keels is spouted or rudders is spouted flying in the face of 1000s of boats handling heavy weather every day.

Here in the med we get really aggressive weather often worse then any predicable milk run in the trades in Atlantic. Boats survive that heavy weather all the time.

Let’s stop the nonsense about AWB s, are they dark holes built tanks , no , but that does not mean they cannot cross oceans , they can, when occasionally they need too.

***( lying ahull in a small modern boat is madness and is akin to repeatedly throwing dice , always keep sailing )

[Sailing Hanse37]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Benny bashing is largely a US thing. It’s just envy.

So true, here in Europe Beneteau are considered very capable long distance cruisers. Look at the number of Beneteaus participating in the transatlantic ARC and then look at how many of these boats had problems… almost none. We crossed the atlantic with our Beneteau without any problem whatsoever. We left 2 weeks ago to do a 4 to 5 year circum navigation and we are confident that our boat won’t let us down. This sort of entries on the forum is so ridiculuous. Maybe started by a frustrated owner of an old derelict boat i guess ?

[Linesledaft]

If someone feels safe crossing in a modern design Benejenehuntalina then it is on them. Some people like the “slow dark caves with long keels that touch bottom”. I personally don’t enjoy pounding as much as some people with modern designs do. I’d much rather spend my time at anchor or docked on a Bene though. Every boat is a compromise. Most people won’t ever sail any boat to its breaking point anyhow.

[Rumrace]

I’m feeling that Hanse37. Boat bash threads I think are for releasing personal anxieties, by deflecting on other people’s boat choices. More stats on Beneteau cause there’s more of them. A lot more.
I lub my Jeanneau and I think the Hanse I’ve seen are superb. I have not looked at or seen any bad boats any brand. They all seem to have given it their best.

[argonauta1]

Well Guys, I spent the better part of ten years on a Beneteau 440/445 circumnavigating. Yes, we added several systems and modified the rig. We went westabout and up through the Red Sea, the Med and Atlantic. We only went bluewater within the seasonal gates i.e.. avoided cyclone. typhoon. and hurricane seasons. Never experienced much over 50 Knots of wind and never had a wave in the cockpit and spray was a rarity. Mostly though it was Trade Wind type sailing running no closer to the wind than a beam reach except in the Red Sea northern segment. We were one of many sailing this type of vessel slowly make a circumnav. Compared to some, the Beneteau was built more heavily especially the rig and steering. Yes we knew of vessels which suffered a dismasting or lost rudder. None were Beneteaus or Jeanneaus.

So the several sweeping statements suggesting that a stock but refitted vessel such as a Beneteau is a bad idea to take bluewater are flat assed wrong

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

***( lying ahull in a small modern boat is madness and is akin to repeatedly throwing dice , always keep sailing )