Drug interceptions on the high seas

[Alastair A]

International Navies will all "search or destroy" as a basic operating premise. Which would you prefer to stand on and see auctioned as an arguable point of the law of the sea?

[Alastair A]

Oops me, action-ed is intended above. A

[wrwakefield]

We are a US flagged vessel and have occasional guests join us.

To help set their [landlubber...] expectations we maintain a page on our blog just for our guests.

Following is an excerpt from our page where we ask them not to bring anything 'illegal' onboard, and explain why:

US flagged vessels are subject to Federal laws [typically via the US Coast Guard] which supersede State laws. Consequently, US boats are subject to being boarded at anytime, anywhere in the world without cause- even if they are your domicile, even if you are sleeping in the marina.

Fourth amendment rights have not extended to US flagged vessels since the Revenue Cutter Act of 1790 (which remains unchanged today... Oh, and for you history buffs, the 4th Amendment was ratified in 1791...)

This was again reinforced in 1949 when 14 USC 89 was made law.

This article explains it well from boaters perspective.

We mention this not to complain, but to make sure you are forewarned...

For example,

of some US cruisers being boarded by the US Coast Guard at 4:15am for over 4 hours while underway in the Caribbean and having their boat searched and bodies swabbed for drug testing. [Oct-2015]

In the end, they are doing their job and we feel deserve our respect. [Not that we always appreciate their methods, however...]

May you never have first hand experiences to share...

Cheers! Bill

[George DuBose]

PS All other things being equal, from a boater' perspective, I'd much rather read the news form the int'l waters (key word here "int'l") of "another pirate crew arrested and tried" than "another drug haul intercepted". In local waters both news should be welcomed. [/QUOTE]

I agree completely. This "war on drugs" is unwinnable. Thousands of people are being killed in this "war". A vast amount of law enforcement and military is distracted.

I don't use drugs for recreation. I am in Holland where my boat is and the Dutch have legal cannabis shops and on the whole, they are cleaner and more low key than whisky bars. The amount of resources and money wasted on this "war" could be better used for more productive pursuits.

Let the druggies get their stash legally, require doctor's prescriptions and monitoring, tax drug sales and use the tax proceeds for rehab programs and Social Security.

Let the Coasties and the Navy direct their resources where they really matter.

[Alastair A]

I can only wish for this courtesy on my side of the Pacific. You guys have honestly, no real complaints. A.

[George DuBose]

I sail in Holland on the IJsselmeer and often visit other Northern European countries. Due to Skylark flying an American flag, I am "controlled" often.

Usually, when I arrive or depart the country I must contact the immigration agency of whatever country I am entering or leaving.

I find the Dutch Marchausee to be very polite and after they find my papers and licenses all in order, there haven't been any problems or hostile attitudes.

Skylark has a transmitting AIS in hope that any coast watch will either recognize that I have been recently controlled or they "see" that I am not trying to hide from anyone.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Having a USCG officer onboard US Navy ships became "the norm" back during the Clinton Era. When the budget for the Military was so thin that you had to get approval in writing from D.C. to buy a new razor, wth personal funds, to shave with. Which meant that few, if any, military units had proper budgets to allow them to train, & or conduct the missions that they were tasked with. Thus someone came up with the idea of "temporarily" turning USN ships into USCG ships, by putting one, or a few USCG personnel onto a USN vessel. And when the ship saw something of note, DC was called, & it was converted from being a military vessel to a LEO vessel, for long enough to investigate & "remedy" the unfolding situation at hand.

So... an hour, or several months. It depended/depends on a lot of things. Not the least of which, who shares or doesn't, intelligence with whom. How briefings are written. Who or what's politically in favor at the moment...

This became popular, & then the norm, due to the fact that thanks to the (then) new "war on drugs", there was funding for LEO type operations. Including enough for USN ships to get underway every once in a great while, should their CO's participate in said operations. Whereas if the CO's didn't avail themselves of such funds, they mostly only left port by automobile, when headed home, when it was time to call it a day.

This kind of thing rapidly became SOP as it allowed USN Ship's Captains enough $ for fuel at least, to conduct some level of operations. Operations neccessary to train their people so that the Navy could continue any & all of it's roles/tasks, at that time. As well as having reasonably well trained personell 5 & 25yrs down the road. Ergo, the US Navy doing drug op's became the norm.

That said, we all know how "easy" it is to get the borderlines that seperate various kinds of power to revert to normal are. On land, at sea, & especially in D.C.
Thus, thanks to politics, as well as FUBAR funding, blurred jurasdictions, wildly polarized political parties, & new political realities (GWOT), you get the situations we have today. Including where law enforcement gets thrown into jail, or shot, for doing their jobs. Or that your average LEO is now also a front line responder, as well as intelligence officer in the GWOT.

So, role reversal, cross pollenization & training, plus mission expansion on oh so many levels.

I'll get off of the soap box. But comment that given the issues herein, they can't be addressed apoliticially. Given the reality of things. So please don't take this post as being politically oriented, or motivated.

[Alastair A]

Good on ya UnCivilised.
Well summarized and well said. Truly please, no smoke blowing into private parts from me. Cheers. A.

[MartinR]

I was intercepted and boarded 2 times in International waters off the coast of Venezuela by the USCG. They were very professional and courteous. They actually asked if they were allowed to board. Of course, you are entitled to refuse boarding, but I guess, next port you arrive in, the authorities will pick your boat to pieces. So I prefer not to argue with them.

[inchcailloch]

Certainly MartinR, Off the Venezuelan coast is where any sailor will be pleased to see a USCG!

[appick]

My wife works for the parent company (wolverine world wide) of Bates Footware. Bates doesn't make a hobnailed boot period. Wolverine still has some dress boots and shoes that are made this way though but aren't military issued. I've never seen a coaster or US Navy personnel in fatigues or uniform wearing hobnailed boots. The noise is a tactical disadvantage and there are much better ways to getting a boot sole to last these days. Most are a form of softer rubber. Even then they are the streak free type. So you might get a little footprints showing on a white deck but shouldn't be any permanent damage.

[appick]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

My understanding of the law (from reading and discussions like this in the past), is that the USCG can board a US-flagged vessel anytime, anywhere, with no reason at all. Other water cops require some sort of “probable cause,” although this seems easy to generate. The same goes for Canadian enforcement (which is the police, not the Canadian Coast Guard, although they usually work together); they need to meet the minimal standard of 'probable cause' before they can demand to board a Canadian flagged vessel. Of course, they can always ask. And as has been pointed out, it’s hard to say no to authorities.

The whole drug thing might get very interesting in Canadian/US territorial waters pretty soon. Our federal government is apparently set to follow through on its promise to legalize (not just decriminalize) recreational pot use. Since this is federal, it should affect boaters rights to carry pot. I wonder how this is going to work out with our US neighbour who seem to be going the other way (at least federally) on pot and other drug use.

It'll probably go the same as our right to carry a handgun onboard our boats. If we enter your waters it's your rules on guns, same would apply to drugs.

[buzzstar]

To the much earlier poster who whined about "hob-nailed boots," and those who might have read and believed. It did not happen. The USCG does not wear them, and for many of the same reasons you probably do not. They are sailers, venture on slippery decks, including their own, and need to maintain their decks. Even as pure hyperbole it was misplaced. The arms though are real.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

To the much earlier poster who whined about "hob-nailed boots," and those who might have read and believed. It did not happen. The USCG does not wear them, and for many of the same reasons you probably do not. They are sailers, venture on slippery decks, including their own, and need to maintain their decks. Even as pure hyperbole it was misplaced. The arms though are real.

Haha, agree, couldn't think of anything worse to wear on a wet slippery deck, you may as well be wearing roller skates......

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by appick

My wife works for the parent company (wolverine world wide) of Bates Footware. Bates doesn't make a hobnailed boot period. Wolverine still has some dress boots and shoes that are made this way though but aren't military issued. I've never seen a coaster or US Navy personnel in fatigues or uniform wearing hobnailed boots. The noise is a tactical disadvantage and there are much better ways to getting a boot sole to last these days. Most are a form of softer rubber. Even then they are the streak free type. So you might get a little footprints showing on a white deck but shouldn't be any permanent damage.

Great post. For those of you who are behind the times a lot of military guys are buying their own foot ware. Even back in 1967-68 when I was on active duty all the cool kids bought what were called "jump boots" in part to imitate the boots the air borne guys wore.

But today Bates 9-11s are probably the boot of choice (I have two pair) due to the zipper in the side which allows them to be put on securely in seconds along with their light weight due to modern materials. I also have a pair of Converse military boots which get bashed for not lasting as long as the Bates 9-11s. For those of you who don't remember Converse is one of the leading athletic shoe makers and along with Reebok makes what look like combat boots using modern materials to produce a light weight boot with soles made of high tech composite material and nary a hobnail in sight. Both Converse and Reebok, along with Bates, make what I will call a high top hiking/whatever shoe many LEOs and military types like for less than combat situations. In all cases these shoes have soles made of material that would never leave scuff marks on a boats deck.

I still spend time hiking/camping/kayaking in remote areas during hurricane season and have to say there is a huge difference between anything I wore in the 1960s in SE Asia when getting paid by Uncle Sugar and the foot ware most hikers and campers wear today.

While I understand gripes about LEOs ability to intercept and board boats I don't understand gripes about their foot ware.