Collision and Dismasting

[h20man]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

The only ones who are going get screwed here is my wife and I. Even if the insurance fixes the boat we are out of cruising as she is out of it now. If the insurance totals the boat we are out at least $25k difference between the payout and the low end of what it is worth.

But except for my tailbone we didn't get hurt.

Glad you are ok. I like the idea of a CCTV or CAM that one can have to show what the reality is...



Best of luck

[Ungvar]

If the fishing vessel was running with its lights off it would likely have been because they forgot to turn them on.

There is no benefit what so ever to running with lights off because every enforcement boat on the coast is running a RADAR. Commercial fishing vessels are super easy to identify by RADAR because they move like fishing boats. It doesn't even take a good RADAR operator to identify a fishing vessel ARPA/MARPA does most of the work now. Most of their competitors will be running RADAR too.

There is no benefit to a steel boat on open water running with their nav lights off, they will be picked up on RADAR by any one who has it, probably before the nav lights are even visible.

I guess it's possible they forgot to turn their nav lights on and when they saw another boat on a collision course remembered to turn them on. But an intentional effort to deceive? It doesn't make much sense because every one with RADAR is going to know they are there, lights or no lights.

[sailorboy1]

Man if they didn't have their lights on I surely don't care why!

[ChrisJHC]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

I mentioned earlier in this thread that I have no knowledge of how the US coast guard and commercial vessels interact regarding marine casualties BUT here in Australia, there are very strict guidelines concerning incident reporting.
…Snip…

Pretty sure that only applies to commercial vessels.
In this case, the fishing vessel would be required to report the incident, however the yacht (assumed to not be a commercial vessel) would not.

[smj]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

The collision was the evening of Dec 30. The morning of the 31st the CG told us on the phone they were going to talk to and inspect the fishing boat. We met the Coast Guard at our boat morning of Jan 2. One of the last things they asked us was if we had been drinking, which we hadn't been. The fishing boat report saying we appeared intoxicated was signed by the owner on Jan 3.

Everything is a he said/he said.

My wife said something today she hadn't said before when we talked about the collision. She said she was looking forward and it just darkness and then suddenly there was a fully lit up boat right in front of us. I think that probably means she saw the fishing boat just before they turned on their lights and just doesn't realize that the was the "darkness".

I have freely admitted we have blame in the collision because we in fact had it. But I truly believe the fishing was running dark until right until they realized we were in front of them and turned on their lights and that is when we saw them. But I have no way to prove this. They say we didn't have our nav lights on and I 110% know we did because we checked when we turned them on and when I was knocking out the pin for the forestay I dwas sitting right next to it and it was on.

From what you’ve stated I can’t see you shouldering any of the blame. A fishing boat like that would be visible for miles if their lights were on.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by smj

From what you’ve stated I can’t see you shouldering any of the blame. A fishing boat like that would be visible for miles if their lights were on.

Morally that may be right, but we collided and we have our share of blame under the rules.

[JardiTancat]

"Lobster Pots on Lake Ontario"? :-}

[JardiTancat]

"Lobster Pots on Lake Ontario"?

[jcough]

I had a similar experience about 10 years ago doing a single handed sail from Belfast ME to Marblehead MA on my Jeanneau One Design 35. It was an overcast night with minimal moonlight, I was on autopilot doing 6.5 knots close reaching, and using my autopilot remote. I noticed up ahead an area that was darker than the surrounding area which was strange, as I got closer I finally saw a fishing boat, No Lights with outriggers deployed, I did a crash tack and missed hitting the outriggers. I got in the radio and tried to raise the fishing boat, he never answered.
I think they were waiting for a drug drop off and running dark.
Scared the crap out of me, glad I was paying close attention or I’d would have had the same dismantling experience.

[parkstone bay]

Without in any way minimising the effects of this incident on the poster and his wife, (and his boat) and without in any way passing judgement on the "fault" question, I confess to being a little concerned when a yottie quotes his "approximate position" using 6 decimal places of a degree. If working to *4* decimal places of a degree, that implies an accuracy of 11 metres (less than 40 feet for the cousins), and 2 more decimal places is 1/100th of that (about 4 inches!).
Incidentally - I've never previous heard of leisure boaters using degrees/decimal degrees, only degrees/mins/decimal mins, though I believe geocachers use the "decimal degree" system.

[Montanan]

FYI:

Per Florida law, both parties involved in the collision need to file a written report.

This is a State law issue and not a USCG issue.

Florida Boating Accident Report Laws Reference link:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2021/327.30


The First Thing To Do In The Scene Of The Accident
According to Florida Statute 327.30, a boater who is involved in a collision or accident should stop his or her vessel and remain at the scene. However, the person can move on if there’s danger to the well-being of everyone on board as well as the watercraft.

Even though you have to avoid danger, make sure that you don’t go too far away from the scene. This law also requires you to provide assistance to those who are injured due to the accident.

You can help by stopping a wound from bleeding, getting an injured individual out of the water, or stabilizing their condition while waiting for professional aid. Always make sure that you have a first aid kit in your boat for these situations.

Important Things When Filing An Accident Report
fl-10-in-florida-what-are-boat-operators-required-to-do-when-involved-in-an-accident
Here are the guidelines set by the Federal law among recreational boat owners when filing an accident report. You must include these things

Death of an individual(s)
Condition of an injured person(s) that requires more than just first aid treatment
The disappearance of a person due to the accident along with the possibilities of injury or death
Notable damages on the boat or other properties that cost over $2,000
Destruction of a vessel
You have to file the accident report right when these circumstances occur. Take note of the time limit of submission. In situations where an injury turns out to be serious and needs further medical treatment, death comes upon an involved person within 24 hours, or a disappearance, the report should be filed within 48 hours.

Otherwise, you can file it within a 10-day time frame. The reports can be submitted to the following authority or office:

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservative Commission: The Division of Law Enforcement
The County Sheriff (Of the area where the accident has taken place)
Chief of the Municipality Police Department (Where the accident happened)

[gonesail]

we had an incident off the coast of miami at night on a fishing boat. the captain gunned the boat for no apparent reason and our fishing lines got tangled. then we saw the tramp steamer making full speed with no lights that would have run us down.

[davil]

Originally Posted by Montanan

FYI:

Per Florida law, both parties involved in the collision need to file a written report.

This is a State law issue and not a USCG issue.

Florida Boating Accident Report Laws Reference link:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2021/327.30


The First Thing To Do In The Scene Of The Accident
According to Florida Statute 327.30, a boater who is involved in a collision or accident should stop his or her vessel and remain at the scene. However, the person can move on if there’s danger to the well-being of everyone on board as well as the watercraft.

Even though you have to avoid danger, make sure that you don’t go too far away from the scene. This law also requires you to provide assistance to those who are injured due to the accident.

You can help by stopping a wound from bleeding, getting an injured individual out of the water, or stabilizing their condition while waiting for professional aid. Always make sure that you have a first aid kit in your boat for these situations.

Important Things When Filing An Accident Report
fl-10-in-florida-what-are-boat-operators-required-to-do-when-involved-in-an-accident
Here are the guidelines set by the Federal law among recreational boat owners when filing an accident report. You must include these things

Death of an individual(s)
Condition of an injured person(s) that requires more than just first aid treatment
The disappearance of a person due to the accident along with the possibilities of injury or death
Notable damages on the boat or other properties that cost over $2,000
Destruction of a vessel
You have to file the accident report right when these circumstances occur. Take note of the time limit of submission. In situations where an injury turns out to be serious and needs further medical treatment, death comes upon an involved person within 24 hours, or a disappearance, the report should be filed within 48 hours.

Otherwise, you can file it within a 10-day time frame. The reports can be submitted to the following authority or office:

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservative Commission: The Division of Law Enforcement
The County Sheriff (Of the area where the accident has taken place)
Chief of the Municipality Police Department (Where the accident happened)

============================

thank you for posting

In a way goes to the heart of the question
Why the F/V left the scene of the accident?

Yes I know, he was told by D to leave the proximity to his sailboat because the debris, BUT even if interpreted to leave does not exonerate or relieves him from his duty.

Very disturbing.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by parkstone bay

Without in any way minimising the effects of this incident on the poster and his wife, (and his boat) and without in any way passing judgement on the "fault" question, I confess to being a little concerned when a yottie quotes his "approximate position" using 6 decimal places of a degree. If working to *4* decimal places of a degree, that implies an accuracy of 11 metres (less than 40 feet for the cousins), and 2 more decimal places is 1/100th of that (about 4 inches!).
Incidentally - I've never previous heard of leisure boaters using degrees/decimal degrees, only degrees/mins/decimal mins, though I believe geocachers use the "decimal degree" system.

I wonder what the OP thinks of your highly useful post? I bet once everything gets resolved and he has no more interest in CF and doesn't care if he gets banned maybe he will come back and tell you.

[davil]

Going back to the report of the F/V where D and his W behavior was “suspicious”
most people will see that as part of more likely in a state of shock, reacting to a threat to their lives, and a more solid reason to remain in the area to render assistance

Very, very distressing, goes against any written maritime law as well as unwritten maritime traditions.

Shame on these people