Beneteau, Jeanneau, Bavaria, Elan, etc. mass production boats that circumnavigated

[David Ess]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Yes it is 100% as useless as that one and the 100s similar since about the topic. But I am glad to see you research the same topic, get the same answers I bet, and take notes.

Yes, and arguments about boat PREFERENCES will go on for a few more millenia, just as they have all thru history. Apparently some places just hated the greek triremes, and the Royal Navy didnt like the top hean spanish galleons. In one thread about hull material preferences wher one hguy asked about cement hulls, anotjer answered that "if you tjrow a bunk of cement in the water it wont float"! Another told him the same re a hunk of steel. Another swore that his cement boat has been wonderful....for the past 20 years. It will ever be thus.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Yes it is 100% as useless as that one and the 100s similar since about the topic. But I am glad to see you research the same topic, get the same answers I bet, and take notes.

You may have no use for it, but that does not mean it is necessarily useless. My interest in reading these threads is not to learn what design features or building practice makes a boat suitable for ocean service. I've sailed far enough and immersed myself in that very subject long enough to know my preferences and the reasons for them. What I am interested in though is the changes in both attitudes and knowledge over time of sailors participating in such discussions. Like your own change, for example, that you yourself spoke about in that thread after acquiring the Hunter.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Greg K

. Like your own change, for example, that you yourself spoke about in that thread after acquiring the Hunter.

Yes 10+ years ago I read one these and other similar threads The result was I got the wrong boat and that wasted 2 years and $10k+ of money just to finally come to the conclusion that these threads are silly and I should have gotten my Hunter to start with.

It is 2021 and this and similar discussions still center around book info written in the 1980s.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Yes 10+ years ago I read one these and other similar threads The result was I got the wrong boat and that wasted 2 years and $10k+ of money just to finally come to the conclusion that these threads are silly and I should have gotten my Hunter to start with.

It is 2021 and this and similar discussions still center around book info written in the 1980s.

Now, that's interesting. Let's see if I understand what you're saying. You bought a boat that didn't suit you partially or wholly due to being swayed by opinions in these sort of discussions which relied heavily on ideas from books written in the 1980's. Did I get that right?

I presume you did not buy a 24 foot, engineless, gaff rigged wooden cutter with a sculling oar. So, may I ask what didn't you like about the boat you bought initially, and what books and ideas from the 80's do you now find to be outdated and, thus, presumably irrelevant. Just to be clear, we are talking about long distance ocean cruising boats, yes?

[sailorboy1]

You don't understand. Probably because you are focused on arguing some unknown unimportant point.

[sailorboy1]

In the end get whatever boat you like and don't worry if a forum agrees.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

In the end get whatever boat you like and don't worry if a forum agrees.

[Jim Cate]

^^^^^
Whaddya mean, guys? If someone buys the wrong boat we will absolutely crucify him here... no forgiveness, no quarter... if it's wrong, it is WRONG!

After all, we have a reputation to maintain.

Jim

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Greg K

You mean like this 39 page one from 2009 in which you participated? I'm just browsing through it now and my first impression is that this current thread is somewhat diminished compared to the numerous well supported opinions of experienced cruisers one reads in that old thread.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ats-34218.html

The topic is certainly as pertinent as it was 12 years ago, but I suspect many whose opinions are worth hearing have grown tired of making the same albeit still valid arguments for what criteria to look at when evaluating the desirable and undesirable characteristics of voyaging boats.

Just as the sea does not change, I doubt that such arguments will be any less valuable in the next 12 years. Boats that are poorly designed and built with questionable quality will still be as unsuitable for ocean voyaging as they are now or were 12 years ago. Perhaps even more so.

So Greg regarding your comment of poorly designed and poorly built boats not being suitable how do you explain that in 12 years of fulltime cruising which includes a circumnavigation via South Africa I saw zero evidence of these poorly built and poorly designed modern boats failing? How do you explain that I've seen Benteaus, Jeanneaus, Barvarias etc complete circumnavigations?

You would think after the amount of fulltime cruising I've seen I would at least of seen one of these boats fail due to bad design and poor quality...wouldnt you?

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by daletournier

So Greg regarding your comment of poorly designed and poorly built boats not being suitable how do you explain that in 12 years of fulltime cruising which includes a circumnavigation via South Africa I saw zero evidence of these poorly built and poorly designed modern boats failing? How do you explain that I've seen Benteaus, Jeanneaus, Barvarias etc complete circumnavigations?

You would think after the amount of fulltime cruising I've seen I would at least of seen one of these boats fail due to bad design and poor quality...wouldnt you?

My point about unsuitable design and build quality for offshore service refers to this thread. Perhaps you missed it.
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...se-246347.html

There is a fairly long list of very good sailors having taken pretty unsuitable stock boats across oceans and around the world (albeit often with rather extensive modifications). Says much about the sailors but perhaps less so about the suitability of such boats. But, yes, you are quite right, lots of modern, flat bottomed, thinly skinned, fin keelers with glued in structural grids are crossing oceans with no problems. Though, whether that undeniable success alone makes such design characteristics and build practice suitable or desirable in ocean going yachts is very much open for debate.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

In the end get whatever boat you like and don't worry if a forum agrees.

The obvious masquerading as wisdom.

[Freshman]

Originally Posted by Greg K

Though, whether that undeniable success alone makes such design characteristics and build practice suitable or desirable in ocean going yachts is very much open for debate.

That undeniable success has proven the right of skinny production boats without doubt. Of course you can cross the road in heavy armored pick up or just in family station wagon.

[Riggerman]

Although the vessel has a lot to do with it. I have done 4 crossings, been in 35 foot seas and 80 knots winds. The stronger the hull the better. Once you hear all the noises the the hull makes when you are in those condition, you will understand. But even if the strength of the boat plays a great part, the sailor's experience makes to biggest part. So your question should really be, am I a good enough sailor to make a 30 day crossing.

[Bad Captain]

Candidly, I think it’s more about the “ride” and the sailor, than the Boat. If you look throughout history, folks have circumnavigated the globe in about anything, just shy of a wooden barrel. While I would prefer to do so in my Hylas as opposed to my Catalina, for reasons of comfort and sail ability, I think both would make the trip.

[sailorF54]

Too lazy to read all the posts...
More recent Beneteaus are not meant for blue sailing.
Older Jeanneaus are ...
PS I'm French and owns a Jeanneau...
Old Beneteaus ? where are they ?
How can you enjoy yourself if you fret about your boat ? Find a sturdy one (that does not mean a Tiger panzer) and enjoy your trip...