Are Sailors Too Paranoid

[YourOldNemesis]

Originally Posted by Minggat

When you loose power in a boat, chances are you may get hurt or dead.

Utter bollocks, that's what the flappy things are for.

When I crossed the Atlantic on a ketch the engine broke on day 2 and wasn't fixed for 3 days. The only sail that stayed up without falling down was the mizzen stays'l. No-one got hurt. In fact 48 people survived as a result of that particular trip, who would have died had we not been in the right bit of the ocean at the right time!

[Gracias]

Interesting topic.

It seems to me (and it doesn't matter if one other person in the world agrees with me or not) that if you believe you're in control of ANYTHING in this world other than your own thoughts, then you're just fooling yourself.

Might as well choose to believe what you want and live accordingly. (That's why I'm cruising!)

[Hiracer]

Originally Posted by YourOldNemesis

Solution:

1. Check your oil as normal and make sure all is good
2. Run your engine up to temp
3. WITHOUT STOPPING YOUR ENGINE check the oil again and note the level - maybe even mark it on the dipstick with a centrepunch

Now you can check your engine oil level while it's running. If I ran my car engine (turbocharged diesel) without stopping for 72 hrs, I'd have done about 4500 miles. It being a diesel engine (more nasty combustion products than petrol engines), and especially because it's turbocharged thus needing nice slippery oil to cool and lubricate the turbo, it would be time for an oil change.

Many thanks to this and MarkJ for raising the issue. I'm going to centerpunch my dipstick in the foreseeable future. Great idea. I keeping learning stuff here.

[Hiracer]

Originally Posted by Gracias

Interesting topic.

It seems to me (and it doesn't matter if one other person in the world agrees with me or not) that if you believe you're in control of ANYTHING in this world other than your own thoughts, then you're just fooling yourself.

It's rude of you to be throwing rocks at my illusions. Really.




(Which means I'm forced to agree with you, albeit with my arm twisted behind my back. But I think we could get into a discussion about the differences among total control versus partial control versus no control. I come from a partial control point of view.)

[Hiracer]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Surprised???????????????????????

Yes and no. I think once people use their diesels and find how dependable they can be, they do the scheduled maintenance and leave it at that. But I agree with your practice because the consequences of low oil are so devastating.

Good point you raise, for sure.

[Randyonr3]

Hey Don,
almost 50 years ago, I saw my dad ride his motorcycle up into the yard, went inside and call a friend to come and get it.. I remember asking him why and it always stuck with me, He said,"I finally learned to ride it"..
A good number of years passed and I brought the inceident up to him.. he told me that If you ever get up enough guts to ride that motorcycle without fear, its time to get ride of it..
Almost 30 years later, I knew what he ment.. Had a 120 inch stroker motor in my HD scooter... Brought it home one day, call a friend and told him to come pick it up..
When He as ked Why, I told him, I finally learned to ride..

And to this day, havent been back on a motorcycle... I hold the same true with my boat.. when I get up enough guts to take it out for a sail, without fear..
I'll be back on the phone calling someone to come get it.......

[Stillraining]

Originally Posted by Bash

This might be one of those questions that deserves its own thread.

Because my engine is turbocharged, I would be concerned about a quick stop without a proper cool-down. If my engine had been running for 48 hours, lets say, I'd want to give it a good 15-minute cool down running at idle before I'd even think about turning it off.

My concern would be twofold. First, it would be unlikely that I've lost or damaged the oil. Second, it is possible that stopping a hot engine for a quick check could do harm to the engine.

I'm interested in other opinions on this. But I'm thinking that commercial vessels often motor 72 hours without an oil check. Shouldn't most diesels be able to do this?

Good Post!

Well I doubt few regard my Diesel knowledge...so it matters not what I think....But I will continue to check my oil level at 100 hour intervals no sooner...I do look at the bilge before I start a motor...if there is oil in it I don't start before checking things out...no oil, no need to check the dip stick it will be where it was last time you ran it...it isnt going to evaporate.

I change my Diesel Equipment Oil at 500 hours not before I don't care if it take 3 years to get there...I have done experiments with Gasoline cars never changing the oil for over 70,000 miles with out so much as a wisp of engine damage or signs of blue smoke from the exhaust or any engine seals leaking..We have a Chrysler van right now I have changed the oil once in 106,000 miles..( Odometer reads 198,000) ..doesn't smoke a bit and runs like a top... It uses way less oil then the 2000 GMC 1/2 ton I bought from my best friend which received 3000 mile oil changes its whole life with out fail and has 50,000 less miles on it....IMHO its a crock of dung we all are forced to change or worry about our oil so often or risk voiding our warranties....Believe me ,That truck has seen its last 3000 mile oil change the day I bought it...It may never get one as it uses a quart every 1000 miles... so its getting its oil change every 5000 now... ...the van doesn't use 1 quart in 10,000 miles

Heat/cooling is the bain of marine diesels...not the oil....Run them...run them modestly..and keep your eyes on the temperature and the bilge ...other then that the oil will take care of itself.

[Hiracer]

Originally Posted by Stillraining

Good Post!

Well I doubt few regard my Diesel knowledge...so it matters not what I think....But I will continue to check my oil level at 100 hour intervals no sooner...I do look at the bilge before I start a motor...if there is oil in it I don't start before checking things out...no oil, no need to check the dip stick it will be where it was last time you ran it...it isnt going to evaporate.

I change my Diesel Equipment Oil at 500 hours not before I don't care if it take 3 years to get there...I have done experiments with Gasoline cars never changing the oil for over 70,000 miles with out so much as a wisp of engine damage or signs of blue smoke from the exhaust or any engine seals leaking..We have a Chrysler van right now I have changed the oil once in in 106,000 miles....doesn't smoke a bit and runs like a top... It uses way less oil then the 2000 GMC 1/2 ton I bought from my best friend which received 3000 mile oil changes its whole life with out fail and has 50,000 less miles on it....IMHO its a crock of dung we all are forced to change or worry about our oil so often or risk voiding our warenties.

Heat/cooling is the bain of marine diesels...not the oil....Run them...run them modestly..and keep your eyes on the temperature and the bilge ...other then that the oil will take care of itself.

SR,

You're killing me! I feel guilty if I let the car oil change get to 4K miles. I change pretty religiously at 3K. Boat diesel gets same level of attention.

But then I ain't no mechanic, and I know it.

[Stillraining]

Its because we have been programed to think that way John...Manufactures have extended their warranties to get people to buy their cars so the powers at be want every perceivable thing going in their favor.

If you remember it use to be 6000 mile intervals on new cars....Mark my words if we ever see a 150,000 mile warranty the interval will drop as well.

Its 12,000 miles for an over the road Diesel truck.

[sailorboy1]

Well I don't really know how often I check the oil on the boat. Motored about 100 hours last year and I'm sure I checked it at least 6 times. So pretty often given the hours. At the samer time the only time I'm ever had to add oil is when I change it. But then I never check the il in the car and it probably goes about 200 hours between changes.

On the other hand maybe my check oil every time was poor example of the paranoid thing. On second thought I don't think this is paranoid, just overkill for preventative maintenance. I was more thinking of things people do in the name of trying to be completely safe where the odds of the item ever being a problem are very remote and they are worrying about basically nothing in the big picture. I still wonder how some people are willing to go out on the water in light of the things they get all bent out of shape about.

[boatman61]

Should we change this Thread to "Are Mechanic's/Engineers/Stokers too Paranoid...."
Sailors seem to have been left somewhere astern.....
Don't get 'bent out of shape' ... deal with things as and when...

[Minggat]

Originally Posted by YourOldNemesis

Utter bollocks, that's what the flappy things are for. !

and

"Every hear of a glider?"

Agreed. I'm not advocating paranoia. Apparently my post was insufficient to express my point. My post was a poor illustration.

Each situation takes a different preparation, or preparation to a higher degree to come out with the same result. No loss of life.

The most important part of that preparation is educating yourself. It does not start with a shopping list of safety gear. If preparation turns to paranoia, then the line we are talking about has been crossed.

We all know people who think driving a car is the same as "driving" a boat, so their preparations are done. They got the key and the hat and know where the throttles are, so they are now "Captains". They could use a little paranoia instead of bravado.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Minggat

and

"Every hear of a glider?"

Agreed. I'm not advocating paranoia. Apparently my post was insufficient to express my point. My post was a poor illustration.

Each situation takes a different preparation, or preparation to a higher degree to come out with the same result. No loss of life.

The most important part of that preparation is educating yourself. It does not start with a shopping list of safety gear. If preparation turns to paranoia, then the line we are talking about has been crossed.

We all know people who think driving a car is the same as "driving" a boat, so their preparations are done. They got the key and the hat and know where the throttles are, so they are now "Captains". They could use a little paranoia instead of bravado.

Lmao... now that DOES give me PARANOIA....

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by Bash

I'm interested in other opinions on this. But I'm thinking that commercial vessels often motor 72 hours without an oil check. Shouldn't most diesels be able to do this?

You'd think so...

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

The simple solution to this for a large engine such as a sulzer or a Bermeister is to have a sump seperate from the crank area. This enables oil level to be checked every few hours while the engine is running flat out(seperate sump keeps flinging oil from disturbing the results)

Not to self - Must have dry sump oil system for boat before departure or I could die. PS - Don't tell admiral.

Originally Posted by Hiracer

Many thanks to this and MarkJ for raising the issue. I'm going to centerpunch my dipstick in the foreseeable future. Great idea. I keeping learning stuff here.

Before centerpunching the dipstick try pulling it while the engine is running. Splash from the lower end is likely to make the dipstick unusable.


What's wrong with oil pressure and temperature gauges? Both will tell you the engine is having an oil problem well before catastrophic failure...

[mintyspilot]

Originally Posted by Minggat

Agreed. I'm not advocating paranoia. Apparently my post was insufficient to express my point. My post was a poor illustration.

Yeah - I do that a lot myself Maybe I'll get better with practice.

Originally Posted by Minggat

The most important part of that preparation is educating yourself.

I have 100% agreement with that. I would add that simulating a failure is a good idea as it is a great learning experience. Everyone should practice obvious common stuff at least once a year - man overboard, engine failure, etc. In gliding we practice extensively for launch failure and simulated situations like airbrakes stuck open, rudder failure, incipient spin awareness etc. When the real thing happens you are ready for it.