U.S. to close..

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

It's a little misleading...at least in terms of cause and effect. It's really the market responding to demand.

Fruits and Veggies are a cheap option in the US but processed foods have simply won out in terms of marketing and it's won out the most in poor urban areas. When faced with fresh fruit or processed food, they buy the processed food. Now if you are running a grocery store and no one is buying your produce, do you expand the produce section? (The Whole Foods class warfare angle is way overplayed.)

Fruits and vegies are definitely not cheaper than mac and cheese. Not everyone has access to cheap China town produce. A lot of neighbourhood only have a small corner store. Watch this documentary. Maybe you'll say it's CNBC but decide for yourself.

To a large degree very poor countries will tend to eat more fresh fruits/veggies...not because they are more health conscious but because they are cheap and can be produced locally often obtained thru barter rather than hard currency. That gives produce an edge over processed in the market.

Wasn't trying to say they are health conscious, they are definitely not. It's just what's available. I was trying to say for a not insignificant amount of people a safeway or large grocery store is not easily accessible.

Interestingly, when we were in Thailand (one of those poor countries with lots of fruits and veggies) last year, we wound up talking to some old western guys at the hotel bar one day. They had noticed over the last 15-20yrs obesity has been on the rise (they were a little less politic about it). Google it and studies support the old guys. Over the same period, processed foods have also been on the rise.

Again, meerly saying affordable fruit and veggies should be made available to the poor in america like they are in those countries. Not people in those countries are health conscious, they are not.

Read up on food deserts. Whether you believe it is up to you.

Ok, having said that some of it is also self perpetuating like you said. But it is a problem non the less. There are those in these neiborhoods that want fresh produce but cannot get it so they are stuck with mac and cheese. I know move closer to a trader joes...........and I guess down a rabbit hole we go.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Yihang

Read up on food deserts. Whether you believe it is up to you.

Ok, having said that some of it is also self perpetuating like you said. But it is a problem non the less. There are those in these neiborhoods that want fresh produce but cannot get it so they are stuck with mac and cheese. I know move closer to a trader joes...........and I guess down a rabbit hole we go.

I'm well aware of the theory. Spent 3 years living in downtown Detroit and had to drive 15 miles out to do grocery shopping. But it's mostly because most of the locals don't buy produce so stores stopped providing it. Sure there are a few people who want fresh produce but they are by far in the minority.

Grocery store chains tried to open up in the city to service the revival of downtown but it didn't go well as the downtown population wasn't large enough and they had the option to go out and shop in the suburbs.

About the only real option would be to outlaw processed foods.

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I'm well aware of the theory. Spent 3 years living in downtown Detroit and had to drive 15 miles out to do grocery shopping. But it's mostly because most of the locals don't buy produce so stores stopped providing it. Sure there are a few people who want fresh produce but they are by far in the minority.

Grocery store chains tried to open up in the city to service the revival of downtown but it didn't go well as the downtown population wasn't large enough and they had the option to go out and shop in the suburbs.

About the only real option would be to outlaw processed foods.

Yeh, lets face it its a lot easier making money where people you serve actually has it.

Well SF passed the soda tax. Maybe a processed food tax. But then it's going to hurt in the short term and people are all about short term comfort.

Comes back to education. At least in Australia we had home ed class where we were taught the food pyramid and made our own minestrone and a few other things in a commercial size kitchen classroom. This was free public schooling.

School canteen was still atrocious though. Just sausage rolls and meat pies...

Here is japanese school lunch. In SF you would pay 20 bucks for that.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Yihang

Comes back to education. At least in Australia we had home ed class where we were taught the food pyramid and made our own minestrone and a few other things in a commercial size kitchen classroom. This was free public schooling.

School canteen was still atrocious though. Just sausage rolls and meat pies...

I'm not sure how much it's education. It's been 30yrs but basically the same thing in the US. We had a mandatory "health" class that everyone had to take where they talked about food groups and such.

And yes, the school lunches were pretty horrid stuff I would hesitate to feed to my dog.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by daletournier

But we're the good guys[emoji16]

Naw we just had bigger gunboats

[Yihang]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Naw we just had bigger gunboats

You had the only gunboats. Those were the days eh. Kinda like gaming in god mode.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Yihang

You are right, a few posts down I said given the flu death was low this year at 20k lets move 20k over from covid. Maybe a few thousands more from suicide. Thats all well and good. Maybe 250k instead of 300k or even 200k. Still a big number.

But the idea that only 4 or was it 6% of the 300k is covid as sue has suggested is just not reasonable.

6% have a cause of death listed as solely covid.

94% have an average of 2.6 additional co-morbidities listed as additional causes of death on the death certificates.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

6% have a cause of death listed as solely covid.

94% have an average of 2.6 additional co-morbidities listed as additional causes of death on the death certificates.

To put this into perspective, however -- what percentage of the population has at least one of the listed co-morbidities?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

6% have a cause of death listed as solely covid.

94% have an average of 2.6 additional co-morbidities listed as additional causes of death on the death certificates.

NOBODY's died from covid. They die from the body's overreaction to the virus and/or from secondary illness that exploits the covid-weakened patient.

So, what's your point?

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

Obama, Bush and Clinton will take the Covid vaccine publicly.

42% of Americans don’t trust the vaccine.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...ine/index.html

Probably fake vaccine, for the show.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

NOBODY's died from covid. They die from the body's overreaction to the virus and/or from secondary illness that exploits the covid-weakened patient.

So, what's your point?

Most of us know full well what his point is ...

The CDC guidelines for assigning cause of death have already been posted here. It's the same approach that has existed for decades (perhaps longer), and is the same one used by most western medical systems. No one has questioned the approach until it became politically necessary (by one side) to do so.

If you read the guidelines I bet the vast majority of deaths have more than one co-morbidity listed. Unless you die violently at a young age, most of us will carry multiple mobidities to our grave. That still doesn't affect the way the underlying cause of death is assigned.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Most of us know full well what his point is ...

The CDC guidelines for assigning cause of death have already been posted here. It's the same approach that has existed for decades (perhaps longer), and is the same one used by most western medical systems. No one has questioned the approach until it became politically necessary (by one side) to do so.

If you read the guidelines I bet the vast majority of deaths have more than one co-morbidity listed. Unless you die violently at a young age, most of us will carry multiple mobidities to our grave. That still doesn't affect the way the underlying cause of death is assigned.

Some months back the CDC did in fact publish stats that 8% (as I recall) of deaths were from Covid alone. That part is factual (afaik). But interpreting such stats so as to downplay the overall lethality of the virus is part of the politicization of the issue, something which always manages to distort the truth regardless of which flavor of politics one prefers. In this case, this is because of the existence of co-morbidities in the vast number of cases, also a fact which you and others have repeatedly (and correctly) pointed out.

In my home state in the US the hospitals and ICUs are now reaching 90% capacity, and authorizations have been put in place to ration resources as may be appropriate. This is also factual, with politics not in play.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

NOBODY's died from covid. They die from the body's overreaction to the virus and/or from secondary illness that exploits the covid-weakened patient.

So, what's your point?

It’s the CDC’s point.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

To put this into perspective, however -- what percentage of the population has at least one of the listed co-morbidities?

I don’t know what percentage of the population has at least one co-morbidities.

Probably a lot.

I would suggest you check with the CDC. I’m only posting their numbers.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Exile

Some months back the CDC did in fact publish stats that 8% (as I recall) of deaths were from Covid alone. That part is factual (afaik). But interpreting such stats so as to downplay the overall lethality of the virus is part of the politicization of the issue, something which always manages to distort the truth regardless of which flavor of politics one prefers. In this case, this is because of the existence of co-morbidities in the vast number of cases, also a fact which you and others have repeatedly (and correctly) pointed out.

In my home state in the US the hospitals and ICUs are now reaching 90% capacity, and authorizations have been put in place to ration resources as may be appropriate. This is also factual, with politics not in play.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-n...virus-pandemic

Hospitals are designed to run at near full capacity.