Drop in LFP Recommendtions

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

So I watched the UTube tear downs and overall the budget $300-350 drop in batteries are pretty good. In my position believing the “better” are worth 2-4 times the price is the same smoke and mirrors that got me to get my FireFly batteries 2.5 years ago. All these years boaters have been buying lead acid batteries and just assuming a better battery just weighted more. There there are the AGMs that they buy that cost 2-3 times “regular” batteries just because people thought they charged fast (they do for 15-30 minutes if hit with a higher enough source) and didn't want to check the acid level once a month. So it is funny how they will hair split the drop in LFPs.

In end I ordered 4 12v 100aH Power Queen batteries for $1319 off Amazon all in. My current charging sources will be fine and will be at least as fast as i ever had and just needs some programing changes.

I could have just gotten “standard” batteries for about $600. But like 2.5 years ago am looking at not having to always be concerned with PSOC. So i am believing some smoke and mirror LFP marketing (my 8+ year tablet battery is working fine), but not a need to believe that bigger smoke and mirrors is really better.

Keep us up to date on how they do .

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

You know what? It sure seems crazy to argue about who has the best cheap batteries!

what's cheap...ampere time is what sounds like a good value for money. but we'll the problem with drop in is always you have no access to each cell and the BMS they use...
if you simply replace your lead with them without growing your electric requirements they are definitely a very good choice. a good 200AH lead deep cycle is the same price a a 100AH ampere time=same capacities usable, but the LFP will charge much faster and life longer then your lead.

have a 3kw Inverter that is used to its potential with an electric gallery running on 200AH ampere time won't end well and with a short life. 200AH Winston will do that for 10years....

[Trimaran Ken]

Originally Posted by CarlF

I have Kilovault batteries. These don’t cost much more than the batteries on Amazon

I can't say if these batteries are worth it, but $700 compared to $300 for a 100ah does not fall into my definition of "don't cost much more".

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Trimaran Ken

I can't say if these batteries are worth it, but $700 compared to $300 for a 100ah does not fall into my definition of "don't cost much more".

You are stuck in lead mind. Let's see you spend 700 for 90ah usable.
You spend 300 for 50ah usable. So to get the same ah out of lead you need 200ah capacity or 600 worth of batteries. In 5 years you are spending that 600 again to replace the now dead lead ( from psoc)
The 700 worth of lifepo4 is still going strong showing no sign of capacity loss
Another 5 years and do it all over .
Lifepo4 still going strong 700 and at 15 years vs fla at 1800 and needs replaced again.

Lifepo4 is a game changer and wallet saver.

[smj]

Originally Posted by newhaul

You are stuck in lead mind. Let's see you spend 700 for 90ah usable.
You spend 300 for 50ah usable. So to get the same ah out of lead you need 200ah capacity or 600 worth of batteries. In 5 years you are spending that 600 again to replace the now dead lead ( from psoc)
The 700 worth of lifepo4 is still going strong showing no sign of capacity loss
Another 5 years and do it all over .
Lifepo4 still going strong 700 and at 15 years vs fla at 1800 and needs replaced again.

Lifepo4 is a game changer and wallet saver.

I don’t think he was talking about a $300 lead acid battery he was comparing a $300 100ah Amazon lithium drop in to the $700 Kilovault lithium.

[Trimaran Ken]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Who has used any of these and can share brand and you experience so far as to good/bad.

I have a 100ah I imported directly from China 3 or 4 years ago, and 4 50ah in my golf cart (48 volt total) that I've had since last spring. The 50ah came from Amazon.


In both instances everything worked as expected.


On the boat, I first just used my old FLA solar charger and the 6 amp alternator on the Yamaha outboard. I then found out that when the battery was fully charged, the alternator was running, and the BMS disconnected for high voltage, the alternator output went to 19 volts. This was initially corrected with turning on a few cabin lights. Later, I replaced my solar controller with a Victron, and installed a $25 voltage regulator on the alternator.


The golf cart still uses the original 48 volt FLA charger, but twice a year, I have to disconnect things and balance the 4 batteries.


I would never go back to lead batteries again.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Trimaran Ken

I have a 100ah I imported directly from China 3 or 4 years ago, and 4 50ah in my golf cart (48 volt total) that I've had since last spring. The 50ah came from Amazon.


In both instances everything worked as expected.


On the boat, I first just used my old FLA solar charger and the 6 amp alternator on the Yamaha outboard. I then found out that when the battery was fully charged, the alternator was running, and the BMS disconnected for high voltage, the alternator output went to 19 volts. This was initially corrected with turning on a few cabin lights. Later, I replaced my solar controller with a Victron, and installed a $25 voltage regulator on the alternator.


The golf cart still uses the original 48 volt FLA charger, but twice a year, I have to disconnect things and balance the 4 batteries.


I would never go back to lead batteries again.

Can you give more info on the charge controller you used on the Yamaha outboard? What brand and where did you install it, on the motor itself or down the line somewhere?

[betwys1]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

The Chinese are pretty good at marketing and the 4 Ps of marketing are

-price
-packaging
-promotion
-product

in that order

while nobody seems to have offered "good reviews" in their assessment, it's time to remind y'all that "Good Reviews" are a purchasable commodity, in which there is a strong market. They are found as frequently attached to Bargain $30 arc-welders as to $1000 batteries.

[CarlF]

Originally Posted by Trimaran Ken

I can't say if these batteries are worth it, but $700 compared to $300 for a 100ah does not fall into my definition of "don't cost much more".

I’ve been following Ampere Time (just changed their name to LiTime). There have been lots of “cheap” lithium battery company’s that have marketed on Amazon. These were mostly truly awful and the companies disappeared quickly making any warranty worthless. But Ampere Time has a different business strategy. If I was buying today, I’d consider them.

It’s especially interesting that they now have a 300ah and 400ah battery. Hooking up many LFP batteries in parallel has downsides ( equal charging/discharge and more cables to corrode).

[Sailon1]

I can recommend Universal AGM Battery, going strong after 4 years. Stored indoors during winter in Ohio and charged every month. Using $60 NOCO genius 5 to charge AGMs and new 100 ah Chins lithium, SFSG.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Sailon1

I can recommend Universal AGM Battery, going strong after 4 years. Stored indoors during winter in Ohio and charged every month. Using $60 NOCO genius 5 to charge AGMs and new 100 ah Chins lithium, SFSG.

Except they cost about the same as lifepo4 with none of the benefits.

BTW lifepo4 when decommissioned for winter do not need a charge to be put on them untill after the spring breakup and recomissioning. And not even needed right away then .
Ormis your agm just the start bank

[Sailon1]

AGMs much less, check facts on storage: https://www.flymo.com/uk/content/hin...es-over-winter

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Sailon1

AGMs much less, check facts on storage: https://www.flymo.com/uk/content/hin...es-over-winter

I know the facts on storage of lifepo4 batteries and the batteries in the linked article are not lifepo4 . But some other more volatile lithium mixture as the ones for my portable power equipment contain cobalt.

As to storage of lifepo4 just discharge to approx 50% and don't recharge them if the temperature is below 32°F /0°C as that can damage the batteries.

[Networker]

Originally Posted by CarlF

I’ve been following Ampere Time (just changed their name to LiTime). There have been lots of “cheap” lithium battery company’s that have marketed on Amazon. These were mostly truly awful and the companies disappeared quickly making any warranty worthless. But Ampere Time has a different business strategy. If I was buying today, I’d consider them.

It’s especially interesting that they now have a 300ah and 400ah battery. Hooking up many LFP batteries in parallel has downsides ( equal charging/discharge and more cables to corrode).

I have 1200AH of Ampere Time (4x 300ah batteries). Extremely happy with them after 18 months so far.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Trimaran Ken

I have a 100ah I imported directly from China 3 or 4 years ago, and 4 50ah in my golf cart (48 volt total) that I've had since last spring. The 50ah came from Amazon.


In both instances everything worked as expected.


On the boat, I first just used my old FLA solar charger and the 6 amp alternator on the Yamaha outboard. I then found out that when the battery was fully charged, the alternator was running, and the BMS disconnected for high voltage, the alternator output went to 19 volts. This was initially corrected with turning on a few cabin lights. Later, I replaced my solar controller with a Victron, and installed a $25 voltage regulator on the alternator.


The golf cart still uses the original 48 volt FLA charger, but twice a year, I have to disconnect things and balance the 4 batteries.


I would never go back to lead batteries again.

You're in Mass. How do you deal with the "no charging below freezing" requirement?


Seems like a non-started for people that sail all year in colder climates.