Yacht sinks off Bay of Islands in 40knots

[sdj]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

It would appear that you are unfamiliar with not only Bridge Resource Management but also Cockpit Resource Management....

Interesting..........

I am not familiar with either, nor would your typical cruising be either. Keen to hear why that is so "interesting".

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

And also...when you start 'screamed/ing an order at someone,' I would suggest you have lost your grip........

That's a projection. Your suggestion is wrong. I don't use others' "suggestions" to define me.

Actually, skrew it, welcome to my ignore list.

[Jim Cate]

Actually, skrew it, welcome to my ignore list.

Your loss, mate. Ping is one of the most experienced and helpful posters on the forum, with both master mariner and yachtie experience to draw upon.

You'd be better off listening than hating...

Jim

[sdj]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

You'd be better off listening than hating...

Listening to what? Perhaps if there were some facts?

Wow, you're a moderator. Should you fueling a fire such as this? Moderators should remain impartial rather than backing abusers.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by sdj

Listening to what? Perhaps if there were some facts?

Wow, you're a moderator. Should you fueling a fire such as this? Moderators should remain impartial rather than backing abusers.

Yep, I am a moderator, but I am also a participating member of CF and will continue to post when I have something to say. When wearing my mod hat I endeavor to be impartial. When acting as a member I will be the ordinary opinionated SOB. You can ignore me, too.

You are free to do what you like about ignoring posters. I am free to say that IMO you will be cutting yourself off from some good experience if you "ignore" El Ping. Your choice... your loss... I really don't care.

Jim

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by sdj

Listening to what? Perhaps if there were some facts?

Wow, you're a moderator. Should you fueling a fire such as this? Moderators should remain impartial rather than backing abusers.

Hi sdj
To move this discussion forward in a positive manner I think we all agree that "communication" is the key to good leadership.
If a captain is any good, he/she has anticipated problems in all manner of things from weather to boat mechanical weaknesses, to on board resources and watchkeeping standards.

That is discussed in crew meetings as is the conditions when the captain is called to bring support....

All ideas and opinions are welcome and better ones from others acknowledged with thanks

During this open discussion a very simple question is asked:
"Do you have any problems with my leadership?"
Listen and be open about their concerns (if any) and address them without being defensive. (We all have weaknesses)

If none or when done, ask them to kindly remember that if a tense, potentially dangerous event happens and I raise my voice above the ambient excitement to give clear concise instructions
Always remember these 2 key rules;

Never endanger yourself
If you don't understand, ask me to clarify.

[JPA Cate]

Beaut rules, Pelagic.

Ann

[jmh2002]

^^^ Good post. And even if that sounds more like the operations onboard a larger vessel, the same basic principles can (and should) also be applied to small yachts too, even if it is a husband and wife team onboard.

[sdj]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Yep, I am a moderator, but I am also a participating member of CF and will continue to post when I have something to say.

Sure, as will I. So why are you directing some discussion at me rearding that? If that is normal operation of the forum, then it is not my business to criticise your execution of it, and correspondingly the reverse is true.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

When wearing my mod hat I endeavor to be impartial. When acting as a member I will be the ordinary opinionated SOB. You can ignore me, too.

So go and do that. Why are you engaging with me when I claim the same membership rights as you?

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

You are free to do what you like about ignoring posters. I am free to say that IMO you will be cutting yourself off from some good experience if you "ignore" El Ping.

Thanks, but I'm not interested in your repeated suggestions. Why are you instructing me on some public forum?

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Your choice... your loss... I really don't care.

No, you certainly do care, or you wouldn't be "speaking to me" about it. Why are you repeatedly doing that?

The more you repeat yourself to me, the more you appear to be harassing me into doing some "thing" that you want. I am most certainly NOT going to unblock someone on the basis of YOUR recommendation. If you can't reconcile that I won't follow your recommendation, that's too bad - go phone a friend, cry on shoulder etc. Perhaps you think I want people to follow MY recommendation, and that I might publicly take issue with them if they do not - like you are?

[weavis]

As a physician, I was so fortunate to have a head nurse tell me the truth about my peoples skills over 35 some years ago in the OP.

I listened. Im just one of many doctors and not the main one. That was the first thing she told me. She was blunt, direct, to the point and said it as it was. At the end she told me that she thought I had the potential to be one of the best so a little course correction was needed.

It was a character trait. On the boat I would bark orders and wonder why my wife and friends would not come sailing with me.

The idea is to lead, encourage and make it as painless as possible.

I changed because the atmosphere in the OP was tense, and it was my fault.

For the last 30 years, My staff WANT to work with me. when a situation is tense, or I need immediate cooperation from my team without question, I stop and say.. "Guys, this bit is a little important, and I need to concentrate very hard. I ask that you all support me so that the team will win this battle for the patient... Unless you see I am making a mistake, or the dosage I request or the action I am taking is out of the norm, Please just trust me and comply immediately......"

I never shout, I never chide, I just ask that it done immediately... If its not done in a timely manner, I would just say.. " we need to be in front of this problem so can we speed it up a little?" I work with them and lead from the position of team leader rather than the boss. I ALWAYS offer praise and thank yous continually during the situation. I never argue and I never give criticisms in public.

I consider this the greatest lesson I ever learned in my life.

Dont think its easy........ My mind is saying " what sort of dumb **** ***** thing is happening right now? but my mouth is gently correcting the mistake with clear and concise instructions in a patient but firm manner with no hint of irritation.

Same on the boat.

Being kind has rewards greater than the immediate situation.

For those of you who have strong opinions, and denigrate hard on the CF.. just remember that you are not in charge... I will apply no latitude if you break a rule if your manner of delivery is rude, self-serving or not of benefit to the smooth running and harmony of information exchange.

I can tell immediately who has read the rules and who has not. Moderator commenting in public is AGAINST THE RULES. You are a guest here on a private forum and as such, you signed up to membership via the rules. Your tenure here will be short if you don't comply.

The admin and Moderators are among the most knowledgable people I know and are generally not averse to going the extra mile for members. Abuse them and its a slow fall to an exit. No one is paid. EVERYTHING is done through group discussion to negate a personal prejudice, and we take care to arrive at a fair decision.

Im now working from the UK. Last week and for the past 5 years, I was living in Spain. Our other mods hail from USA, Canada, other European countries and Australia. Sometimes the zone differences make for discussion a little longer than expected, but that's the way it is.

Criticism of others will alienate a person quicker than anything. Deal with the problem and leave your ego behind.

[sdj]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

....That is discussed in crew meetings as is the conditions when the captain is called to bring support.... All ideas and opinions are welcome and better ones from others acknowledged with thanks

Sure, all normal polite discourse. Some a-hole skipper might be prepared to show off his ego there, but I doubt he'd have many crew - no repeat ones anyway.

Originally Posted by Pelagic

"Do you have any problems with my leadership?"

Proper leaders don't make mistakes like that. I'd be making damn sure there WERE no problems with my leadership, just like proper crew would be doing with their participation. Sure as hell I'd be spoken to if I skrewed up, and so would crew, and that's how it is.

Originally Posted by Pelagic

... ask them to kindly remember that if a tense, potentially dangerous event happens and I raise my voice above the ambient excitement to give clear concise instructions

That goes without saying. IF crew need to be reminded that you are there to make sure sh1t remains square and don't mean to hurt anyones' feelings, then something is amiss. What exactly do they think you ARE there for? What do they think THEY are there for? This isn't a hotel room.

Here is the boot on the right foot, IMO ;

A skipper that yells at crew OTHER than at times where he's trying to save everyones' poor miserable stinkin' life is an abuser.

Crew that thinks a yelling skipper is an a-hole, are a liability.

Yachting is enjoyable, for all onboard. None of this BS applies in real life, because in real life it's not one long emergency, or its not supposed to be anyway, and that is just the whole point of it. Chill the hell out and cest la vie, but if someone gets yelled at best be doing it right now son, then we can do the pat on the back thing and quickly return to the advertised program.

Moral of the story - know your place onboard, whatever that is, and work hard to do the right thing - then we'll all be safe and have a great time. Skippers, always have two ways out, and reminder to not be a jerk. Crew, reminder to not be a know-it-all. Simple.

Unsubscribing.

[Pelagic]

https://youtu.be/deFDXYdF2g4.
Sorry, couldn't help

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

https://youtu.be/deFDXYdF2g4.
Sorry, couldn't help

Hey, you shouldn't be sorry at all.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by sdj

Proper leaders don't make mistakes like that. I'd be making damn sure there WERE no problems with my leadership, just like proper crew would be doing with their participation. Sure as hell I'd be spoken to if I skrewed up, and so would crew, and that's how it is.

Not really trying to get involved with all of this, but I did want to note that 'proper leaders' can and do make mistakes too, for various different reasons.

Good leaders recognise their own mistakes too though. That's part of how they become good.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by sdj

....... as I am a pilot as well as a sailor ........

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

It would appear that you are unfamiliar with not only Bridge Resource Management but also Cockpit Resource Management....
....................

Originally Posted by sdj

I am not familiar with either, ..........

Then you are not a pilot, at least not a proper one.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

It would appear that you are unfamiliar with not only Bridge Resource Management but also Cockpit Resource Management....

Interesting..........

And also...when you start 'screamed/ing an order at someone,' I would suggest you have lost your grip........

That's the very thing.


People want leadership; it's a basic human trait. What they want is a leader who can keep difficult situations under control, and they want to know what they should do so everything will work and people will stay safe. Once you start screaming, you have demonstrated that you don't have anything under control, not even yourself. You fail as a leader at that moment, if it didn't happen sooner.


It works exactly the same way in the office, by the way.


Some people can't be led, however, or don't know how. It's your responsibility as the skipper not to take the first type as crew, and to gently demonstrate to the second type, how.


Whatever happens, it's your responsibility.