Too much solar on this arch?

[Shaneesprit]

A lot of people complaining about your windage, why don’t you make your Arch but make but make ALL of the panels plug and play?
So you can slide the panels out unplug and store on deck or inside. When not on board, sailing upwind, or higher wind speeds.
Then you can choose how much solar to install on a daily basis.

[OS2Dude]

I put two 175W flexible panels in PVC frames on my cabin roof. They stay out 24/7/365 unless a hurricane is coming. They are light, easy to handle if the need ever arises. I like that they can stay out while I'm underway so I'm almost always charging from one if not both.

I'd investigate using them as the rear bimini (Bifacials would do well there.) if you have the room. Maybe have a couple of flexibles that you can deploy on the foredeck when at anchor, or ones that can be deployed on the life lines. (My original setup was two 100W rigid panels on the lifelines, but they had to be stowed when we went out and deployed when we anchored. They were big and bulky and a pain to move around.



Tried to post images of my panels, but they don't seem to show. See them at: https://www.pinterest.com/chriswlctt/catalina-30-mods/

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by Ryban

...My only hesitation is that this would be a total of 28x4 = 112lbs of just solar panels, not accounting for any hardware to make the system work. It seems like maybe a lot of weight to be mounting at this location but I'm curious to what you guys have to say. ...

112 pounds (50 kgs) that's trivial.

Originally Posted by Ryban

This is why I ask! So people can rationally talk me out of it. ...

There is very limited rationality in this place. And so for myself I fail to understand why you'd be interested in a bunch of unknown randoms on the internet heaving in with their opinions.
But that said, thanks for the great posts and enjoying the too-ing and fro-ing.

It's your boat, do what you want with it. I especially liked the panels going up the mast. I clipped that pic for later.

Great CAD drawings by the way. What are you using?
Oh and my own boat has an arch that I can stand under. Very convenient.

Consider your ability to clean the panels. They get quite dirty. It's very difficult on my boat to clean them.

And obviously you know this but sadly the sun doesn't always shine. So where you're going to cruise needs to be factored in. And even with the California locale, when the night comes ...

Originally Posted by Ryban

... Might only [be a] 32 foot boat, but it's also about the fattest/heaviest 32 foot boat out there. ...

Not true at all.

Originally Posted by Ryban

...
I think people tend to underestimate their power requirements, and make up for it by running their engine or generator frequently, which we have no desire to do.

I'd like to know whether this statement has any validity, as in there are reliable sources of research you can cite or this is just something you dreamt up.

In my limited experience most cruisers have very carefully worked out their needs, current draws for every device, times in use etc and often have a spreadsheet they update when the configuration changes.
And no matter the quantity of electricity, water, food, cooking gas, diesel etc, carried on board, when away from land where these can be had, you have to be careful. For example a classic I've seen several times in remote areas is people running out of petrol for their dinghys.

[akopac]

I am solar independent. I can go 10 days with no sun. It’s a combination of consumption and solar, and batteries.
Start with minimum power consumption.
Fridge insulation is first. It’s time intensive to rebuild a box, but worth it. Foam is dirt cheap. Use FRP for lining. I made a thread on it. Replace all lighting with LED. My nav computer is opencpn on a pi shared over its own Wi-Fi to a iPad in the cockpit. I use propane for the stove. I do have a spectra 200c Watermaker I bought used 20 years ago. At the time I sold the existing power survivor 35 on eBay and it was a even $$$ swap. It requires very little maintenance and has been extremely reliable. It just works. 1Amp/gallon. I have B&G halo 20+ radar that overlays my charts when I need it
Now the power Stats.
400A usable Firefly battery bank
400W Solar

“Overnight” usage and recharged by next day stats

At anchor here in Whangarei, New Zealand
18Ahrs/9-10am
At dock ( no shore power) Mazatlan,MX 92degree water, 102degree air
28-35Amphrs/10am
Underway
52Amphrs/12pm
Underway running radar
65Amphrs/1pm

The 6 cubic foot fridge freezer insulation was a game changer. My solar is on swing out davits on my aft pulpit

[Ryban]

Originally Posted by grantmc

Great CAD drawings by the way. What are you using?
Oh and my own boat has an arch that I can stand under. Very convenient.

I used Fusion360, they have a free version again that can be used for non commercial applications.

Originally Posted by grantmc

I'd like to know whether this statement has any validity, as in there are reliable sources of research you can cite or this is just something you dreamt up.

In my limited experience most cruisers have very carefully worked out their needs, current draws for every device, times in use etc and often have a spreadsheet they update when the configuration changes.
And no matter the quantity of electricity, water, food, cooking gas, diesel etc, carried on board, when away from land where these can be had, you have to be careful. For example a classic I've seen several times in remote areas is people running out of petrol for their dinghys.

My observation was purely anecdotal from my own travels, not from any proper surveying. A lot of cruisers I bumped into had started their voyages years ago and had either different requirements when they set off, or their requirements expanded. A lot of people I know picked up little Honda generators on their way because they were cheap and can be found most everywhere. Others ended up adding solar arches in Panama when the access to the labor and resources was available and affordable.

I think it’s easier to underestimate power consumption, and over estimate solar production (especially if cells are getting shaded frequently).

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Ryban

We're keeping our propane stove/oven, but it would be nice to have the option to use the extra juice we're getting to cook meals too, with a single-burner portable induction burner.

I think our needs are reasonable. Might only 32 foot boat, but it's also about the fattest/heaviest 32 foot boat out there.

I think people tend to underestimate their power requirements, and make up for it by running their engine or generator frequently, which we have no desire to do.

Perhaps we can add some numbers, but make an allowance for our latitude in Southern England at 50'N. Attached image with some numbers showing what 590w of solar will generate in September, so not the best month as the azimuth of the sun is sinking fast.

So what are we doing with 2kW each day? well electric cooking and their are some great ideas in the cooking forum on here.

Is 590w enough? Yes for us from say April to early September and late September with an 10% boost from the alternator occasionally. Late October to early March forget it. I have seen 590w of solar generate 19w on a drab January afternoon. I am just playing around with a single adjustable 110w panel for the guard rails this summer and if it works, then will copy it on the other side. Since I want it adjustable, it should be pretty efficient if angled to the sun.

Looking at your arch, how about 3 x 200 bi-facial panels instead. Just be aware that sea water doesn't reflect sunlight very well, but you know that because the sea warms up in the summer. However, white GRP does, so having panels over the boat works, but less so if they are so far back.

Our panels are 295w and weigh 17kgs each, plus another say 15kgs for the arch and support bars. It's been there since Nov 2022 and pretty solid. No noticeable change in sailing particularly to windward, but we don't store dinghies and other bulky junk on the stern. The reduction through not carrying 22Kgs of gas cylinders in the stern helps too.

Could we have more on the arch? Hyundai 410w panels are currently £70 in the UK and they are shingled so no bus bars, the cells sit on top of each other like a tiled roof.

I liked following your adventures on Tarka and if you are planning further voyaging to remote places, then a good set up for electric cooking is going to really help save carrying large quantities of gas plus all the faff filling them in some foreign land. We do carry a single 1.8kg cylinder and single gas hob just in case, but have no real intention of using it.

Pete

[bergius]

Originally Posted by quartersplash

Could you post a few more photos of your arch? I am considering the same on my Nor'sea 27. Thanks

Here you go, this is from the first test fit (which is why it’s only spot welded)


And here is the arch without panels on it. We can lay the mast on it when going through canals:

[Boatguy30]

You can run a lot on 2x200 watts. In the nice weather you describe you'll have plenty. I have crossed the Pacific on a cat with outboards with 2x190. Runs small fridge and freezer, pelagic autopilot, lights, laptop, etc. Need to run a Honda 1000 a few nights a week on passage. With an inboard diesel to charge, you'll be fine.

[Thomas1985]

Too much solar?

[BaccaSean]

Originally Posted by bergius

What helps, is the 300W of deployable panels that we can pull up the mast when anchored.

Could you share more about how this system is built?

[Ryban]

Originally Posted by Pete7

I liked following your adventures on Tarka and if you are planning further voyaging to remote places, then a good set up for electric cooking is going to really help save carrying large quantities of gas plus all the faff filling them in some foreign land. We do carry a single 1.8kg cylinder and single gas hob just in case, but have no real intention of using it.

Pete

Thanks for the numbers and real data -- I really think what you provided is an example why you can't really have "too much" solar (within the constraints of the boat, of course). Allso thanks for the kind words! I miss Tarka sometimes, but I really like our Westsail. I think I plan to share the next adventure with the boat, too, but nothing has been finalized.

I'm actually pivoting though, and am thinking about foregoing the arch entirely for some of the reasons outline here (primarily windage, but also expense).

Instead -- my current thought is to put solar on our dodger using stainless tubing and fittings from here: https://www.geminiproducts.net/solar-panel-mounts/ . These allow us to pretty easily build a structure that will not only make the doger more rigid, but not require significant modification to the canvas. I believe the dodger can handle the weight, even in a blow, but I may add re-enforcements as needed.

I can fit 2x 100W and 2 x 50W panels on the dodger without them being in the way, or overhanging (the cardboard in the photo below was a mock-up for a 75W panel that wasn't going to fit).

In the cockpit we currently have 2x175W "wings" whose angle can be adjusted -- see first photo below. I think they're honestly too large, would probably interfere with our spinnaker/drifter sheets, and wouldn't be easy to safely stow in a really big blow. Instead, I'm leaning towards using slim profile 100W panels, that fit within the length of stainless tubing we have in this location. Then I could double these up in either a "fold-out" or "slide-out" configuration for when conditions are safe or suitable for use.

That brings our total solar stats to:

• Dodger: 350W -- but will be at mercy of boom position (at anchor we can swing the boom out).
• Wings stowed: 200W
• Wings deployed: +200W
• Additional foldables/deployables: 200W

Total in stream-lined configuration: 550W
Total in wings deployed: 750W
Total with other deployables as-needed (foldables on deck, lifelines, etc): 950W.

I'm also not showing any panels aft between the pullpit and boom gallows, but we have room for 100W on each side there if we see fit.

[bergius]

Originally Posted by BaccaSean

Could you share more about how this system is built?

It is a commercial product: FLINsail. We were offered a good deal on it in the Berlin boat show back in 2021.

Here’s a more detailed picture:


One could probably build something similar with clever use of mast track cars and dyneema.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Ryban

In the cockpit we currently have 2x175W "wings" whose angle can be adjusted -- see first photo below. I think they're honestly too large, would probably interfere with our spinnaker/drifter sheets, and wouldn't be easy to safely stow in a really big blow. Instead, I'm leaning towards using slim profile 100W panels, that fit within the length of stainless tubing we have in this location. Then I could double these up in either a "fold-out" or "slide-out" configuration for when conditions are safe or suitable for use. .

950w at anchor will do very nicely.

Here is the first attempt at 110w panels on the life lines. Renogy have some 115w bi-facials which could be interesting on the life lines.

Pete

[Ryban]

Pete7 -- Yeah if I can find a slim bifcial panel, I'll definitely prefer to go that route, as these would be well placed for benefits form such panels. The 100W slim panels I'm looking at are 13.7" wide.

Originally Posted by bergius

It is a commercial product: FLINsail. We were offered a good deal on it in the Berlin boat show back in 2021.

This is off-topic, but I'm also in the B&B forums building the Spindrift 10N. You guys did a great job building your 9N so quickly.

[Pete7]

Sadly the Renogy are square 30" x 31". Only 18.6% efficient too which is a little disappointing. They are still presumably 115w just bigger than some other makes.

Pete