Nespresso on inverter "stutters"

[jskamer]

Hi!

I've just installed a Victron Phoenix Inverter compact 12/1600 in our (soon-to-be) home on the water. The main aim of installing this inverter was to use our Nespresso machine to make (safe and good) coffee whilst underway. The inverter seems to work fine with all loads except for Nespresso machines. I've already tried two different ones from different brands and the results are, unfortunately, the same. The problem is that, when the nespresso is pulling coffee, the power draw increases sporadically (i guess the heating element is engaged), when this happens the machine "stutters", the AC voltage drops (to around 210v), the DC voltage drops (depending on if the engine is running to either 12 or 12,5v) and the inverter (somtimes, not always) blinks the "alarm" LED. The amperage draw on the batteries fluctuates between 10 and 140A (which seems extremely high to me). When the (suspected) heating element is not on the current draw is around 10A, when it engages the current draw spikes at 140/140 and settles at around 110. The "stutter" occurs when this spike happens.

My install:
- 5x 105AH SMF batteries (link *in dutch*), connected together using 50mm cables (1/0AWG).
- Victron Phoenix inverter compact 1600/12
- Nespresso machine (rated at 1140w)

Any help or insight into what the problem might be is very welcome!

[HankOnthewater]

I have the same inverter in my small campervan, and possibly the same coffee pod machine.
I don't have any problems though, but I have 320 amp/hr Lithium batteries. No voltage drop. Runs very well.

Maybe voltage drop is your issue:
- You did not say how old your batteries are. Yes I read the specs (I am Dutch), certainly 5 of these should be ample for the inverter and that load. maybe your batteries are on their way out, and cannot maintain the voltage required
- somewhere in your system there is a high resistance, ie bad crimp/connection, and thus causing a voltage drop.

On my larger campervan, I have the same coffee maker on an another inverter (1500 W Rich/Kipoint), on 3 Odyssey (AGM about 100 Amp/hr each) batteries, again no problem.

And on my boat: much larger AGM bank (right now being replaced with LFP), with a larger inverter, not a problem. Although a different brand of coffeemaker as well.

Maybe in trouble shooting, try another large load, ie induction cooker, heater, powertool, or small kettle (most kettles are 2400 Watt, but 1000-1200 Watt ones can be had), and see how your inverter/battery setup performs.
Note Victron expresses their inverter capacity in VA, not in Watts, so 1600 VA could be only 1400 Watt. Read on power factor here: https://www.fluke.com/en-au/learn/bl...factor-formula

[coopec43]

Maybe it is a voltage problem as Hank has suggested?


"My machine blinks 3 times and does not make preparations, what should I do? Nespresso machines are designed to work with a voltage range of 220 to 240 V and it is recommended that they are connected directly to the power outlet for proper operation.
If the Essenza Mini or Inissia machine flashes both buttons 3 times and stops, 3 times and stops; it is understood that it is some kind of alert related to the electrical voltage/amperage.

- Step 0. Turn off and unplug the machine.
- Step 1. Confirm that the machine is plugged directly into the wall outlet, that it does not share a socket or extension cord with another product.
- Step 2. Unplug other household appliances that are not in use. (Microwaves, kettles, fans, electric stoves, etc).
- Step 3. Plug the machine back in and turn it on to make a preparation.
If you need more information, contact us through our WhatsApp channel, Live Chat or by calling Club Nespresso Chile at 800 211 222, where our coffee specialists will help you.


https://www.contact.nespresso.com/faq/cl/en/detail/8452

[CrispyCringle]

Ive got a 2000 VA Victron and FLA batteries. If I take the inverter to the max the problem I have is voltage sag from the batteries. That triggers a low voltage alarm and will sometimes trip the inverter to shutdown. Try monitoring your battery voltage while using the coffee maker. I suspect its getting around 12 volts under high load and causing this.

I think the Victron Connect app will show what the low voltage alarm is set to. If it doesnt, then you need the additional dongle to see those settings. But I believe even the install manual shows the defaults.

What is the coffee makers Amp draw rated at?

[CAT-SAIL]

SAGE Nespresso machine + Victron 1600 inverter + LiFePO4 = works well on my boat

I too believe for you its a voltage drop issue.

[capt jgw]

As to the 140 amp draw: the load on a 12 volt battery bank running a 120 vac appliance will be 10 times what the appliance draws on 120 volts, plus whatever losses exist in the inverter itself. 12 or 13 amps on 120 vac is not unreasonable for an appliance with a big heating element, and could give you 140 through the inverter. The expected amp or watt draw on 120 should be labeled somewhere on the appliance.
Assuming the 12/1600 means it has a 1600 watt rating, you may well be exceeding the inverter's capacity. 1600 Watts divided by 120 volts is 13.3 amps. If the coffee maker and any others loads that are running at the time exceed this, the inverter can't handle it. Check the label on the coffee maker. If it's anywhere near 13 amps or 1600 watts you need a bigger inverter. My 3000 watt Xantrex runs our coffee maker, fridge, and a few lights at the same time with no problem. I do not try to run the coffee maker, microwave, or toaster together. Only one of those at a time. It does slow down breakfast a bit.

[donradcliffe]

How along are the cables to the inverter? At 140 amps, you are pushing 1 awg wire pretty hard. Five feet to the inverter will lose 0.2 volts just in the wire.

[capt jgw]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

How along are the cables to the inverter? At 140 amps, you are pushing 1 awg wire pretty hard. Five feet to the inverter will lose 0.2 volts just in the wire.

My 3000 watt inverter's wired with 2/0 cable about 4 feet each way. There's probably some voltage drop but not enough to be a problem.

[jskamer]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

How along are the cables to the inverter? At 140 amps, you are pushing 1 awg wire pretty hard. Five feet to the inverter will lose 0.2 volts just in the wire.

The batteries are spread out along the width of the boat (under the two beds). Between two batteries the cables are never longer than 1metre (3ft) but i guess length between two poles is about 3metres (9ft). The inverter is connected in the middle directly to the battery disconnect switches. There’s a significant voltage drop (until about 12v), but from what i’ve read that’s not enough to trip the victrons alarm

[capt jgw]

Rereading the original I see the coffee machine is rated 1140 watts. That's 9.5 amps out of the possible 13.3 the inverter can supply. The inverter should be able to handle that, but if there's 3.8 amps of other things running the inverter will overload. My refrigerator for example is 1 amp at 120 volts or 10 amps through the inverter. The inverter is losing maybe 1 amp so call it 11. That's 3 times the reserve you have in your system.

[jskamer]

Thanks for all the input! However my system is 230v, so I guess that changes the calculations in the responses above, meaning my draw at 145a at peak is still quite excessive: 1140w at 230 should be 60a in my calculations at 12v?

[HankOnthewater]

Originally Posted by jskamer

Thanks for all the input! However my system is 230v, so I guess that changes the calculations in the responses above, meaning my draw at 145a at peak is still quite excessive: 1140w at 230 should be 60a in my calculations at 12v?

1140 Watt remains the same, regardless of voltage. At 12 Volt that is around 1140/12=95 amps. BTW, I tested the amps on by boat (although a sightly different setup), and the amp meter showed a fluctuating current 100-110 amps. The increased consumption might be caused by starting the high pressure pump in the coffee maker, and the efficiency loss in the inverter, from memory for your and mine model 6-8%.

[OldGreyB]

We have 840Ah of AGM and 3000VA Victron Multiplus, @ 230Vac but our Nespresso stutters too.

No voltage drop or current swings, and only the Nespresso is problematic. All other appliances such as ice makers, air fryers , vacuum cleaners etc. run well.

I therefore concluded that it is possibly a cheap electronics design in the Nespresso, so it and the Victron are not playing happily. If I want coffee from the Nespresso, I also turn on another small load, in my case a Ryobi One battery charger; no more Nespresso stutters, but plenty of coffee.

May be worth a trying something similar on your boat.

[Dockhead]

You've gotten good advice. I think there are three things to look at:


1. Battery bank. Check voltage at the battery terminals when the coffee machine is working. You might need bigger or lithium.


2. Cabling. Check voltage drop at the end of the DC cables.



3. Connections. A bad connection somewhere can cause this.


Conceivable 4. is the inverter is under capacity? I have a Victron 3000/24/50 charger/inverter and I have used it for many years with Nespresso machines. My Victron gives the superficial appearance of 3000 watts but actually its 3000VA, or 2500 watts with its power factor, but a continuous load of 1500 watts sometimes causes overheat! Even in my cold climate. So you might consider that Victron inverters don't give their nameplate capacity.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by OldGreyB

We have 840Ah of AGM and 3000VA Victron Multiplus, @ 230Vac but our Nespresso stutters too.

No voltage drop or current swings, and only the Nespresso is problematic. All other appliances such as ice makers, air fryers , vacuum cleaners etc. run well.

I therefore concluded that it is possibly a cheap electronics design in the Nespresso, so it and the Victron are not playing happily. If I want coffee from the Nespresso, I also turn on another small load, in my case a Ryobi One battery charger; no more Nespresso stutters, but plenty of coffee.

May be worth a trying something similar on your boat.

I've used two different Nespresso machines over more than 10 years with my Multiplus with never any stuttering. Another data point.