Alternator + Inverter vs Generator

[s/v Jedi]

I just installed 6 new Trojan L16's, mostly because I have enough projects already and had these batteries before the new set also and could simply swap them.

I was tempted to go AGM in the L16 form factor but wasn't really impressed with the Rolls specs and shocked with their price. Next time I will probably go for lithium.

I do use AGM for starter batteries; the Odyssey 2150's are just great.

cheers,
Nick.

[akio.kanemoto]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I just installed 6 new Trojan L16's, mostly because I have enough projects already and had these batteries before the new set also and could simply swap them.

I was tempted to go AGM in the L16 form factor but wasn't really impressed with the Rolls specs and shocked with their price. Next time I will probably go for lithium.

I do use AGM for starter batteries; the Odyssey 2150's are just great.

cheers,
Nick.

Do you abuse your batteries? What do you cycle them between? (with such a large bank and a genset, your numbers are going to be very different I suppose!)

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Bash

Rule #1: all sailboats have too much windage.
Rule #2: few sailboats have enough storage.
Rule #3: on racing sailboats, Rule #2 tends to trump Rule #1.
Rule #4: on cruising sailboats, Rule #1 tends to trump Rule #2.

Sure, within reason. But fenders on the pushpit? Ick.

They can be deflated, by the way, and rolled up, for extended periods away from docks.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by akio.kanemoto

Do you abuse your batteries? What do you cycle them between? (with such a large bank and a genset, your numbers are going to be very different I suppose!)

Define "abuse".... I don't try to...

My previous set lasted 5 years but I only equalized them once or twice, had them submerged in fresh water once and probably overcharged them a bit now and then. I would call that unintentional abuse and think it's a typical situation for the avg. cruiser. One battery failed with an internal short and that means either continue with 4 batteries or replace all 6. I had hoped to get 6 years out of them.

The bank was just short of 1,200Ah but the new ones have more capacity and the bank is now 1,300Ah. I don't think that's very big... we had 1,800Ah before that when the boat didn't have solar power yet. When you have a fridge and freezer and want to go for multiple days between charging batteries, this is an avg. sized battery bank for 12V.

When I would go for lithium I have another problem: the batteries are inside the keel and part of the ballast of the boat. The weight savings of going with lithium are not okay for us so I would need to add lead ballast ... strange feeling!

cheers,
Nick.

[ctsbillc]

A few points:
1) Small A/C will run on a baby Honda EU1000i. Just using the A/C to take the humudity out of the air is probably the best way to do it anyway.
2) Gas on board is not a good thing, but you have the outboard to feed as well, so it is a matter of degrees.
3) The Honda will probably rust out in a few years, but you can buy many of them for the cost of a diesel + installation. (squirting silicone grease over the metalwork should help a bit here).
4) Diesel generators are very heavy. 250 lbs as against 50 lbs for a Honda.

Note Lundell alternators are not very efficient - about 65%. A decent generator should get about 80%. This is mechanical to electrical, not including the efficiencies of the engine, which is of course better for a Diesel.

[tallyhorob]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Do you do that at home too?

Sure that works, great when you're out camping or weekend / holiday boat trips but when you live aboard full time, I see no harm in having some of the same luxuries as the folks dwelling on dirt.

On the other hand, some cruisers only get their fix when they punish themselves... in which case doing away with luxuries is the logical course of action. Very often, these types are single handers and they wonder why... ;-)

I'm glad to be the kind who enjoys luxuries.

cheers,
Nick.

So, we have a guy who told us his issues on space and what he can and can not fit and ask for ideas on hot water since a gennie would not fit and above is your answer to my idea , wow great help thanks

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by tallyhorob

So, we have a guy who told us his issues on space and what he can and can not fit and ask for ideas on hot water since a gennie would not fit and above is your answer to my idea , wow great help thanks

Tallyhorob,

I'm afraid there are many questions from many different posters in this thread and we all have a hard time keeping them apart. The OP is gonna fit a genset because of Texas heat and humidity with the need for A/C and from there we all went in many directions.

I think you were addressing Akio with the solar shower idea? I was under the impression that the best solution for him was already on the table: a Webasto or Eberspacher hydronic unit. They are so small that they fit everywhere and no bigger than the instant (electric we all assume) water-heaters that Akio himself was looking at.
Akio's comments about hot showers and the wife's demands plus the idea for an instant heater is an indication for me that the camping style isn't a viable solution for him. You might also have missed the fact that the hydronic units do not need a genset at all... they burn diesel and use a little DC battery power.

My comment about single hand cruisers was in general and not directed to you... if you took it that way: I am sorry.

cheers,
Nick.

[Highlander40]

I use AGM's.
You don't charge any bank in an hour.
Get used to buying new batterys every 3 years if you plan on a full charge once a month.

[hellosailor]

Nick-
"The weight savings of going with lithium are not okay for us so I would need to add lead ballast "
Actually, if you want to go first class...There's tungsten instead of lead. Gonna cost quite a bit more, but tungsten is also much denser (nearly twice) than lead and it will let you put more weight lower down because of that.

[downunder]

Nick,

There apparently are diesel stoves and barbys available. The new Australian built Montebello 40ft sailing cats of which several will be operating as charter vessels in the Whitsundays are using them.

I think they are from scandinavia somewhere.
Not sure if brand was Wallas.

Does anyone have any experience with these as a way to get away from Propane??

[s/v Jedi]

Yes, the Amel's (used tto?) come with them. However, none of the Amel's I have visited had it operational so there you go...

cheers,
Nick.

[hellosailor]

Cooking on diesel is pretty much like cooking on kerosene. As far as I can tell, the only reason to do it is because you have a diesel tank for the engine and can't find any other fuel for the stove.

[downunder]

Got to have a barby so it looks like propane.

thanks

[Highlander40]

Relating to AMG battery performance.
I recently installed one in my 27 year old Honda 750 motorcycle.
Same size but loads more power!

[anjou]

As Nick knows, ive been pondering this question for months now, and its not helped by me just not understanding electricity. Its like trying to knit fog or talk to the dead, its all witchcraft.

So, I had a meeting today with Charles Stirling -Stirling Power.
Great guy, full of expletives and plain talking. He clearly knows his stuff and has his own strong views on the preference of systems.

In fairness to Nick, who advised me to go the Trojan and inverter route, I did the math and didnt think I could afford it, but Charles advised the exact same.

Charles has a 60' in the Carib and uses a gen on board and he said the maintenence cost and unreliability is a huge issue, not to mention the capital investment to get a realy decent gen to start with. You only get what you pay for. If your going to have a 6-8Kva set, it realy should be water cooled for longevity and to recover some energy, and that costs even more money.

SO, he advised me (sorry Nick, I wasnt doubting you, just scared of the cost) to go for Trojans, 600-1000Ah, a 2500w inverter/charger and a 210amp alternator-battery charger.

I can always add in a solar panel or turbine later if I have more cash.

My needs are going to be different to sailing cruisers or weekend warriors in the warmer lattitudes, so more Ah storage and faster charging mean I only need to run the engine once every 3-4 days if im moored up, and if im underway, then im skinning the cat both ways.