380: It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it.

[RSH]

I am going to replace the two toilets on board our 2009 Lagoon 380 with some electric freshwater flush toilets, and I am looking for advice on how to best remove the existing Jabsco manual toilets.

My thought is that I'm good at demo on land, and if I can save some money doing the dirty work of pulling out the old toilets and hoses, then I can put that savings towards a really good set of toilets going in.

I've pulled out and replaced several land-based toilets in our houses, and while I know it's not the same, I do have some familiarity with the grossness and potential danger from swamp gasses.

Any hints and tips are greatly appreciated, along with what toilet would you put in if you could put any electric flush freshwater toilet in your 380?

[HopCar]

Wear rubber gloves!
The Raritan Marine Elegance is probably the best Marine toilet on the market.
You could save a few bucks by buying a Raritan Sea Era conversion kit and using the bowls from your Jabsco toilets. I think the Sea Era uses the same reliable pump as the Marine Elegance, but I’m not sure of that.

[BobHorn]

Put in a Raritan Elegance on our last boat. Loved it, it had the freshwater/seawater option for flush water.

[CarlF]

Assuming the head isn't partially clogged, this really isn't that bad. Holding tanks don't normally give off the gasses of a sewer. First, pump and flush the holding holding tank with fresh water a few times. Use some bleach (this will kill the good bacteria in the tank but it will regrow with use). Pour a bucket of fresh water and some cleaner in the bowl and flush the head a few times. Leave the cleaning mixture in the head overnight. Flush again with with the bucket of water with a cup of bleach. Let that work for an hour. Flush thoroughly with fresh water.

The hardest thing is likely to be getting the old hoses off. Wrap hot towels or pour hot water. There are tools that look like bent picks remove auto radiator hoses that may help.

Another vote for putting in the Raritan Marine Elegance.

[gamayun]

Having just rebuilt my Raritan and replaced the hoses, I was amazed at how much better it all smells. The build up in the hoses was crazy bad. The pump was easy to remove but only after removing the hoses first. Best to just slice them off the fittings unless they're relatively new and for some reason you might want to reuse. Use the old hoses to cut replacements for your new ones, but leave a little extra just in case. Buy the best hose for sewage so smells are minimized. The pump should come off easily with a couple of different sized socket wrenches and a bit of contortion work. Then it would just be a matter of someone installing all the ready-to-go parts. Make sure to use safety goggles and a dust mask. Though you'll flush the tanks, there's some nasty fluid in the hoses that will only come out when you open everything up. Expect to just let that go into the bilge. It's inevitable no matter how well placed you might have the buckets.

[-bliss-]

Once again, great advice from gamayun!

Good luck, RSH.

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by -bliss-

Once again, great advice from gamayun!

Good luck, RSH.

Aw shucks, Bliss, thanks for compliment. Learning about a boat is helped hugely by lack of funds to pay someone else to do the dirty work, but it's even more satisfying when the job is done...

[RSH]

Originally Posted by HopCar

Wear rubber gloves!
The Raritan Marine Elegance is probably the best Marine toilet on the market.
You could save a few bucks by buying a Raritan Sea Era conversion kit and using the bowls from your Jabsco toilets. I think the Sea Era uses the same reliable pump as the Marine Elegance, but I’m not sure of that.

Yeah I'm a germaphobe; I'll probably be wearing a hazmat suit.

Originally Posted by BobHorn

Put in a Raritan Elegance on our last boat. Loved it, it had the freshwater/seawater option for flush water.

I'll look at the Raritan Elegance, thanks!

Originally Posted by CarlF

Assuming the head isn't partially clogged, this really isn't that bad. Holding tanks don't normally give off the gasses of a sewer. First, pump and flush the holding holding tank with fresh water a few times. Use some bleach (this will kill the good bacteria in the tank but it will regrow with use). Pour a bucket of fresh water and some cleaner in the bowl and flush the head a few times. Leave the cleaning mixture in the head overnight. Flush again with with the bucket of water with a cup of bleach. Let that work for an hour. Flush thoroughly with fresh water.

The hardest thing is likely to be getting the old hoses off. Wrap hot towels or pour hot water. There are tools that look like bent picks remove auto radiator hoses that may help.

Another vote for putting in the Raritan Marine Elegance.

I believe the holding tanks are empty because the boat has been on the hard for a year, but I will check and follow those procedures.

I was going to bring a hair dryer to use to soften plastic parts that need removing and/or softening. I have a heat gun, but I've been known to melt stuff with it so I'm sticking with a hair dryer.

Originally Posted by gamayun

Having just rebuilt my Raritan and replaced the hoses, I was amazed at how much better it all smells. The build up in the hoses was crazy bad. The pump was easy to remove but only after removing the hoses first. Best to just slice them off the fittings unless they're relatively new and for some reason you might want to reuse. Use the old hoses to cut replacements for your new ones, but leave a little extra just in case. Buy the best hose for sewage so smells are minimized. The pump should come off easily with a couple of different sized socket wrenches and a bit of contortion work. Then it would just be a matter of someone installing all the ready-to-go parts. Make sure to use safety goggles and a dust mask. Though you'll flush the tanks, there's some nasty fluid in the hoses that will only come out when you open everything up. Expect to just let that go into the bilge. It's inevitable no matter how well placed you might have the buckets.

Ugh smelly fluid in the bilge-I might put some waterproof tarp down or something to try and catch it. I definitely want to put all new hoses/components/stuff on the toilet system. Actually I don't want to put it in-I'll let someone who knows how to put a marine toilet in do it, I just want to save some money by doing the dirty, less-skilled jobs. Use that money for good hoses

Thanks for the tips! I'll be sure to pack the socket wrenches and tool box.

[pitlaw]

Boiling hot water is much quisker than a heat gun. Drible it over the ends and start twisting and prying. And in that environment its a nice defense. You might also try to vacuum out the lines before you cut into them. But yours are probably dry by now.

[roberthowell]

b eco friendly vinegar instead of bleach will keep both the bowl and lines clear and clean

[GregW1309]

Get some heavy duty garbage sacks to catch the drips and old hoses, a lot more flexible than a bucket.

[peghall]

I think the Sea Era uses the same reliable pump as the Marine Elegance, but I’m not sure of that.


Nope...the Atlantes and the Elegance use the same pump but the SeaEra QC (pressurized fresh water version) doesn't. It can use the same flush options as the Elegance and Atlantes though. Seaera_QC-promo.pdf


--Peggie

[peghall]

Step 1. Decide on the new equipment...read the owners manuals/installation guides for all of it and plan every step of the job. Iow, get ALL your ducks in a row and every question asked and answered before doing anything.

Step 2. In addition to the new stuff, buy some plastic trash bags and disposable aluminum pans to catch spills. Big box hardware stores and paint stores have disposable "rubber" gloves...a box of a 100 is VERY cheap.

Step 3. Pumpout and thoroughly rinse out the toilet, holding tank and ALL plumbing.

Now you can remove the toilet. Remove the bowl first whether you plan to re-use it or not...it'll make the toilet a lot easier to lift and carry off the boat. The base is secured to the sole using lag bolts...just back 'em out. Disconnect the highest ends of the hoses first. Warming 'em makes 'em a lot easier to remove. I've always liked a blow dryer for this...others seem to think boiling water is easier. Catch spills in the garbage bags.

If your hoses go through inaccessible places, you may be able to simultaneously pull the new ones through as you pull the old ones out. Buy a male-male "hose mender" cut the ends of the new and old hose as cleanly as possible...you want to butt them together to create a smooth unbroken surface. Glue the hoses onto the fitting...duct tape won't hold against a strong tub, clamps can get caught.

Speaking of hoses...if you only want to replace hoses ONCE, this is NOT the place to go cheap! For years, Trident 101/102 (identical except for color...101 is black, 102 has a white "skin" on it) was the only hose I recommended...it's been on the market for 20+ years without a single reported odor permeation failure. It just has one major drawback: it's as stiff as an ironing board, making it necessary to use inline radius fittings on bends more than about 5 degrees. About 10 years, Raritan introduced their SaniFlex hose...not a single reported odor permeation failure yet and I haven't heard of any either. And it' SO flexible it can be bent like hairpin without kinking. RaritanSaniFlex hose Defender has it for <$10/ft.

You're welcome to give me a shout via PM--better yet email--if you have questions that need more detailed discussion than is practical in a forum...I'm always glad to help.

--Peggie

[RSH]

Originally Posted by peghall

You're welcome to give me a shout via PM--better yet email--if you have questions that need more detailed discussion than is practical in a forum...I'm always glad to help.

--Peggie

Thanks Peggie, you are awesome! I'll let you know when I start work on it-we were thinking we'd pull the toilets when we're there next week and then let the yard put the new ones in when we're there again in Jan, but now we're rethinking the sequence...

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by peghall

About 10 years, Raritan introduced their SaniFlex hose...not a single reported odor permeation failure yet and I haven't heard of any either. And it' SO flexible it can be bent like hairpin without kinking. RaritanSaniFlex hose

I so wish I'd known this. I put a pucker in one of the Trident hoses because of a hard bend. Great info as usual, Peggy!