450: Broken bulkheads

[ReneJK]

now normally i am not an alarmist but recently there has been a thread on the facebook 450 owners group where several owners of 450 f/s have reported broken bulkheads , ages 2011 - 2018

Most of these seem to be in Martinique , some in other places , but it all seems to be caused by a rigging tension that is too high

Lagoon changed masts somewhere in 2014/15 where they went from double shrouds without diamonds to single shrouds with diamonds , the 'older' type mast has specs where the rigging tension much lower than for the newer type , but regardless of which type of mast people report issues with both type

As we are smack in the middle of purchasing and finalizing the purchase of a 2014 owner model , and we were 7 days away of taking full ownership I made the decision (rightly or wrongly , but I got cold feet !) to pull out of the deal but I want to share what is going around right now, incl owners going through a legal battle with Lagoon to get reimbursed for their costs of repair


what to look out for and points to possible/potential eminent bulkhead failure :


1) panel behind the cabin sofa cusions (where the mast compression post is) bulking out





2) port and starbord side doors to forward cabins (or fwd head in owner version) no longer square



then several owners have taken out the doors pulling away the door trim , finding warped



or completely broken bulkheads












the only remedy so far seems to be (aside from initial repair that involves tearing down most of the interiour to access and repair the bulkhead) lowering the shroud tension











reports are these boats have never been in any hurricane , ('our' boat was pvt owned and in Greece) none of them were 'dropped'

reports from several places with around 10 in Martinique (Large charter fleet ?) but our broker told us he knew at least a handfull in Greece with bulking below the mast behind the sofa cushions (he never mentioned bulkhead problems though)

and please don't shoot the messenger , we are still upset that we had to pull out of the purchase of 'our' boat in Greece and continue our travels that we started 3 years ago

[Tin Tin]

The yard riggers put 66% more tension on the stays than specified (4000kg vs spec of 2400kg) - no surprise there. You can not rig a cat like a mono. Also whilst the boat supposedly was not dropped, the travel lift straps may have been incorrectly placed, plenty of ways to damage a boat and not tell the owner you stuffed up.

[Iaangus]

Has there been discussion among the group about the cost to prevent or repair these problems?

[ReneJK]

Originally Posted by Iaangus

Has there been discussion among the group about the cost to prevent or repair these problems?

There are some quotes floating around , from 30k (DIY) to 50-120K (yard repair and accommodation)

[ReneJK]

helpful maybe , attached lagoon doc

[more]

Originally Posted by ReneJK

now normally i am not an alarmist but recently there has been a thread on the facebook 450 owners group where several owners of 450 f/s have reported broken bulkheads , ages 2011 - 2018
o

Owner in this picture is in big problem. Only solution return everthing, good insurance and wait gale 10 and go hard sailing in rock.
Also Lagoon must change bulkheads design and material. from plywood to GRP with touch Carbon fiber. Repair this not be an easy task .

[ReneJK]

Originally Posted by more

Owner in this picture is in big problem. Only solution return everthing, good insurance and wait gale 10 and go hard sailing in rock.
Also Lagoon must change bulkheads design and material. from plywood to GRP with touch Carbon fiber. Repair this not be an easy task .

Not just this owner
50 boat owners have now checked their bulkheads and not a single one where the bulkhead was straight , all of them warped or broken

Ranges from 2011 to 2019 both F & S models

[more]

Originally Posted by ReneJK

Not just this owner
50 boat owners have now checked their bulkheads and not a single one where the bulkhead was straight , all of them warped or broken

Ranges from 2011 to 2019 both F & S models

Big expensive problem around 50000-130000$

Also something in stability /weight calculation is problem.But I think Lagoon has structural warranty of 5 years. Only after you go on court and win a lawsuit for 5-15 year(management lagoon take a bonus and find new jobs with better salary)

[CantRemember]

Check out youtuber "Sailing Parlay Revival" looks like he's got the issue and is doing the repair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6ABr4oMsX8

[ARumRunner]

Part II


https://youtu.be/je0LkKk0Ahg

[Tin Tin]

Pity they don't put in the headline Broken Bulkhead "of a Hurricane damaged boat" then you would not have to sit and watch the obvious litany of repair jobs. But I guess it gets click bait - same for monos which the OP and above poster would more readily under stand being mono hullers with little to no knowledge evidenced on multihull construction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBYBy2ka-gU

[Yatt]

Recieved this from Lagoon today:



Service Network communication regarding the Lagoon 450 mast bulkheads
May 6th, 2021


Dear Partners,
Following the webinars we had this week, this communication regards the Lagoon 450 (Flybridge and SporTop versions) in response to several reports of damaged forward bulkheads.
To share with you a global view and understanding of the situation, we would like to remind you that since 2011, more than a thousand Lagoon 450 have been sailing all over the world, and that a large number among these are extensively sailing, many in successful charter use.
To date, around 40 cases of damaged forward bulkheads have been reported, mostly by owners directly. However, we would like to point out that a large number of boats inspected present no problems with their bulkheads, knowing that many of these boats have a history of intense sailing in all types of sea conditions.
You are well aware that the customer safety is an absolute priority for Lagoon. In this regard, we would like to confirm that the damage to the mast bulkheads, as reported to us, can lead to neither dismasting nor any risk for the crew.
All Lagoon 450 can therefore continue to sail.
Among the cases identified, we have discovered localized buckling or shearing on the outer side of the forward bulkhead (non-structural zones with respect to mast support). According to the Finite Element calculations (FEA) performed by our Design Office and analyzed in collaboration with the VPLP team of naval architects, we confirm that the scantling is sufficient under normal use of the boat.
The area is located in a stress concentration zone, designed to withstand normal stress, which could however create an imbalance if the boat was to be used in a manner that does not comply with the recommendations for use, as described in our User Manuals.
To reassure Lagoon 450 owners, should they have any questions about the condition of their boat's forward bulkhead, we propose, for those who wish so, to have an inspection of their boat's forward bulkhead performed by the Lagoon dealer network (or Lagoon Service Center). As a commercial gesture, these inspection costs will be borne by the brand. It cannot be carried out other than according to the inspection procedure established by the Lagoon brand. Should the owner detect any damage to the bulkhead, we recommend the inspection to take place at the earliest opportunity.
The only approved inspection is the one provided by a Lagoon dealer, following the methodology provided by Lagoon.
In view of our technical analysis of the cases reported, and of the history of each boat, we wish to manage the situation on a case-by-case basis, which will allow us to propose an appropriate response. Our Customer Service team is at your disposal to provide you with the inspection methodology and, if necessary, the appropriate repair procedure, or even the reinforcement procedure for the forward bulkhead, should the customer wishes so.
Finally, we confirm that this issue only concerns the Lagoon 450, and no other model in the range, be they former or current models.
The Lagoon 450 is, and remains, a model widely appreciated by yachtsmen all over the world, and we are committed to preserving its excellent reputation, both in the interest of the owners, and also in the interest of the Lagoon brand.
We are working hard to find a solution for each and every case that is brought to our attention, and we know that the professionalism and worldwide presence of the Lagoon dealer network and Service Centers, which you are a part, will be a genuine asset in this context.
Thank you for your collaboration on this matter, and for the level of service you are able to provide to the Lagoon 450 owners that come to you.
The LAGOON team

[zboss]

So they are saying "its your fault". Nice.

[rspott]

I have been asking people if they are owners of Lagoon 450f/s boats If they have a moment to remove the trim on their boats and take some pictures of their bulkheads.

There is a video on removing your bulkheads here: https://youtu.be/6fGnpkdnVDc

You can submit some pictures and minor amount of data here: https://rspott.com/bulkhead

If you are arranging an inspection with your Lagoon dealer or Service center please note that. I would still _love_ to have pictures of the bulkheads as they are inspected.

If you do not feel comfortable using the form, or the form does not work I am easily messaged via direct message.

[ozsailer]

Originally Posted by zboss

So they are saying "its your fault". Nice.

How did you come to that conclusion.. All I see is Lagoon making comment that an issue exists and they are currenlty trying to understand and arrange inspections and repair if necesary. It needs to be said that this damage could well be the result of damage occasioned as stated by Lagoon in some boats and I would not expect Lagoon or any other boat builder take responsibility for the actions of other persons or outside forces IE Hurricane.

Now I am reading a lot of L450 owners have not suffered any of the issues that may cause the broken bulkheads as listed by Lagoon and therefore IMO have a valid claim and I would expect Lagoon will honour the claim.


Ozsailer