450: Broken bulkheads

[carlosproa]

Originally Posted by smj

Never seen a keel stepped rig on a catamaran.

Biplane rigs? Two parallel masts - one in each hull.

[smj]

Originally Posted by carlosproa

Biplane rigs? Two parallel masts - one in each hull.

Could be.

[Roddu]

Parlay's latest episode said (way at the end of his video) that a bunch of owners (>10 boats, all same issues) are teaming up and filing a law suit against Lagoon/Beneteau re a design flaw.....!!!

[olaf hart]

Here is how a cat should be built

https://youtu.be/UtOCErzL7wk

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by olaf hart

Here is how a cat should be built

Really, no, that still is quite sucky quality.

Better than the Lagoon. But still pretty shitty.

The tabbing and the bonding is very sloppy.

You should look inside perhaps a Pogo or JPK to see how a well-built glass boat should look.

[BillKny]

Originally Posted by olaf hart

Here is how a cat should be built

https://youtu.be/UtOCErzL7wk

If you think that is what high quality fiberglass work looks like… well… never mind…

All I see is a lot of, “Nobody will ever see in here, just slap it together and get it done!”

[rspott]

Originally Posted by BillKny

If you think that is what high quality fiberglass work looks like… well… never mind…

All I see is a lot of, “Nobody will ever see in here, just slap it together and get it done!”

I really love these opinions but perhaps they could be shared in another subgroup of this site or in another thread.

We are not trying to bash the manufacturer but rather help them find the way.

[rspott]

Originally Posted by olaf hart

Here is how a cat should be built

https://youtu.be/UtOCErzL7wk

Hrm. Maybe this video would be more valuable in a leopard group.

[smj]

Originally Posted by rspott

I really love these opinions but perhaps they could be shared in another subgroup of this site or in another thread.



We are not trying to bash the manufacturer but rather help them find the way.

I take this thread as a heads up to current 450 owners such as yourself and people who are interested in buying a 450.
Whether it turns into a Lagoon bashing thread is entirely dependent on Lagoons actions/inactions in dealing with this problem.
My opinion obviously.

[Ulstue]

How loose are your leewards shrouds at half wind. Especially on masts with only one single shroud each side.

How worrying is a leeward shroud that is as loose as Parley's?

Isn't it normal that the leeward shroud is quite relaxed and a bit slack at this length? Espacially on a cat? I know the damage at Parley, of course, but should loose leeward shrouds really worry one that much?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46rg0hqwgu4&t=701s

(11:35)

[Seasun1994]

Originally Posted by ReneJK

now normally i am not an alarmist but recently there has been a thread on the facebook 450 owners group where several owners of 450 f/s have reported broken bulkheads , ages 2011 - 2018

Most of these seem to be in Martinique , some in other places , but it all seems to be caused by a rigging tension that is too high

Lagoon changed masts somewhere in 2014/15 where they went from double shrouds without diamonds to single shrouds with diamonds , the 'older' type mast has specs where the rigging tension much lower than for the newer type , but regardless of which type of mast people report issues with both type

As we are smack in the middle of purchasing and finalizing the purchase of a 2014 owner model , and we were 7 days away of taking full ownership I made the decision (rightly or wrongly , but I got cold feet !) to pull out of the deal but I want to share what is going around right now, incl owners going through a legal battle with Lagoon to get reimbursed for their costs of repair


what to look out for and points to possible/potential eminent bulkhead failure :


1) panel behind the cabin sofa cusions (where the mast compression post is) bulking out





2) port and starbord side doors to forward cabins (or fwd head in owner version) no longer square



then several owners have taken out the doors pulling away the door trim , finding warped



or completely broken bulkheads












the only remedy so far seems to be (aside from initial repair that involves tearing down most of the interiour to access and repair the bulkhead) lowering the shroud tension











reports are these boats have never been in any hurricane , ('our' boat was pvt owned and in Greece) none of them were 'dropped'

reports from several places with around 10 in Martinique (Large charter fleet ?) but our broker told us he knew at least a handfull in Greece with bulking below the mast behind the sofa cushions (he never mentioned bulkhead problems though)

and please don't shoot the messenger , we are still upset that we had to pull out of the purchase of 'our' boat in Greece and continue our travels that we started 3 years ago

Did you eventually buy a boat?

[ReneJK]

Yes , but not a 450 , we bought a 42 instead

[Seasun1994]

Originally Posted by ReneJK

Yes , but not a 450 , we bought a 42 instead

Interesting. Thanks for your response. And congratulations on your new boat!

Can I ask if what we have seen from Lagoon in terms of the fullness of their response to other owners, and what they have detailed on the website (https://www.cata-lagoon.com/en/lagoon-450-support) would have given you any additional comfort in buying a 450? It seems like they are giving themselves a fair bit of wiggler room on 'normal use' but generally willing to conduct repairs and/or reinforcements.

Also, knowing the 42 is built with a similar manufacturing style, did you have any reservations about buying any Lagoon product?

I ask because we are in the same place you were back in April, considering buying a Lagoon 450 or 42 in the eastern Med. Any chance I could PM you for more details of your experiences? Both with the purchase process and sailing the med during covid.

We reached out to Lagoon about our concern in buying a 450 and taking on the liability for the past user's treatment of the boat, and they basically said don't buy it without getting it fixed/reinforced by Lagoon (certified dealer network) first.

Cheers.

[ozsailer]

Hello everyone, Just a quick question, I have just watched a recent youtube video by David Shih who is in the process of repairing his Lagoon 450 with assistance from Parley Revival in which David visits two further damaged L450s which were located in the States.

During the video David states that there are now more than 200 L450 that have been reported with the bulkhead issue. I have submitted a post on the Lagoon 450 damaged bulkhead facebook site to obtaiun information regarding this adn to ascertain if this is correct or false but strangely it never made the public posts. This is not the first time this has occured on the Facebook site when I have made a genuine enquiry regarding this.

Is there anyone here that can confirm or deny if 200 plus L450s have been identified as fault. I am not trying to stir the pot here and only trying to sort the wheat from the chaff to determine the truth, no more no less. For those that might ask we have owned two previous Lagoons and on the hunt for a third and trying to work out what model to be looking at.


Ozsailer

[rspott]

Yes. More than 200.

All of them will need at the least: reinforcement